Dr Jeffrey Jensen is the Dean of the Arizona College of Podiatric Medicine. In this episode, we discuss his remarkable career, including his wound care research at Barry University, product development and how he came to have 14 United States Patents related to innovations addressing diabetic foot ulcer offloading, post-surgical care, fracture care and antimicrobials.
He is also the host of the Deans Chat Podcast, where he discusses all things podiatric medicine.
On this episode, we also discuss:
- Being a student at the California College of Podiatric Medicine.
- Podiatric Education
- Podiatric Research
- Product Development and protecting your intellectual property.
- THE 3% RULE – A rule every podiatrist needs to know if they want to get ahead in their career.
If you have any questions about this episode, you can contact me at email@example.com
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Tyson Franklin: [00:00:00] Hi, I’m Tyson Franklin, and welcome to this week’s episode of the Podiatry Legends podcast. With me today is Dr. Jeffrey Jensen, and he is the Dean of the Arizona College of Podiatric Medicine at Glendale, Arizona, and he’s the host of the Dean’s Chat Podcast. Jeffrey, how you doing? Doing wonderful.
Jeff Jensen: I’ll just call you Tyson, thanks for having me on your
Tyson Franklin: show.
No, I’ll just call you Jeff, because I know you don’t mind being called Jeff.
Jeff Jensen: First names are the way to
Tyson Franklin: go, Tyson. Okay. So I want to say you’re the Dean of the Arizona College of Podiatric Medicine, , which I think is very cool.
And because I mentioned that I go to Arizona every year, so I just love that whole desert sort of environment. But I want to go back a little bit further you did your bachelor of science at university of Wisconsin, 1985. Why podiatry? What made you decide that podiatry, did you know you were going to do podiatry before you did the undergraduate degree? No,
Jeff Jensen: I did not Tyson. I didn’t decide to go into podiatric medicine until I was working on my master’s [00:01:00] degree at San Diego state and exercise physiology.
Okay. But I was well versed in podiatry because our family had a family podiatrist where I grew up in Madison, Wisconsin, and he had done my mom’s bunions and hammer toes and neuromas and he made orthotics for all the long distance runners. So I knew about podiatry. I just hadn’t connected myself becoming a podiatrist yet.
Tyson Franklin: So what made the switch go off then?
Jeff Jensen: So when I was working on my master’s degree, I was taking these upper level courses with all the pre med students, pre dental students, and I was really doing well in them. And then I was watching some of my colleagues in exercise physiology, struggling with the job market.
And one day, one week, I went back to Wisconsin to visit my parents. And then I called Dr. Hummel Ed Hummel was his name. And I asked him if I could come and visit and shadow him and see what he does on a day to day basis. And that was the deciding factor for me. [00:02:00] I knew I wanted to go into podiatric medicine.
Tyson Franklin: Okay. That’s cool. So you were studying in Wisconsin. Where were you originally from? Where was, where’s home? Home is Wisconsin
Jeff Jensen: for me, and then my wife and I wife to be, I should say, met in Madison and then we ended up transferring to Wisconsin Oshkosh, where we both got our undergraduate degrees.
And we wanted to continue our education. So we moved to California. I went to San Diego State and that’s when I decided I wanted to go back and take some of those required courses, organic chemistry, physics, things like that, that I hadn’t had. And then, I went up to San Francisco for an interview because the California College of Podiatric Medicine is in San Francisco and they accepted me.
And then we moved to San Francisco. I never in a million years would have thought I’d live in San Francisco, California. Yeah.
Tyson Franklin: I was in Wisconsin last year. First time went to my first baseball game. Oh, good. It was fun. Yeah. I’ve got my Brewers t shirt [00:03:00] and it so much fun, but yeah, Wisconsin, it was cold. Yeah.
Jeff Jensen: It was really cold. We love to go back to Wisconsin in the summertime, but in the wintertime, you can’t beat Arizona or Florida for sure.
Tyson Franklin: So anyway, so you’ve gone from Wisconsin, you’ve gone to, , San Francisco, California College of Podiatric Medicine. You’ve graduated from there in 1991. 91. Yep.
So once you graduate, where did you do your residency?
Jeff Jensen: So in our profession here in the States, Tyson, we have the opportunity to do some rotations. They call them audition rotations or clerkships. So you have an opportunity to go around the country and do rotations for a month at different hospitals.
And I, one of my rotations was in Detroit, Michigan, and I had an opportunity to go there for a month and I really liked it. And so I was hoping that they would choose me to be a resident down the road. And they did. And so next thing, my wife and I were loading up the rider moving truck and [00:04:00] going from San Francisco to Detroit, Michigan.
Tyson Franklin: So with that rotation, I haven’t heard anyone mention that before about the. So how many, how long do you have to do that for? Or do you just keep doing that until someone offers you a residency? No,
Jeff Jensen: it’s actually part of the curriculum. So what happens now, my students in the end of their third year can take two months and do rotations like that.
And then the first six months of their fourth year, and they also do rotations around the country because in January of their fourth year, right? They’re about what? Four months away from graduating, they do residency interviews, and then, they put it into a computer program, and then in March, they find out where they’re going to do their residency program.
Tyson Franklin: Okay. I want to go back one step. When you were at the California College of Podiatric Medicine, what were the famous names that were there when you were there?
Jeff Jensen: Oh my gosh. You’re going to love this. So in our surgery department, Dr. Josh Gerber was there. Josh wrote the bunion book. , also, , Joel Clark was there.
Steve [00:05:00] Palladino was there. Bill Jenkins was there. That’s the surgery department. And then in the medicine department, Dr. Jim Stavosky was there. Also, I think Dr. Palladino, Steve Palladino worked there. And then of course, in biomechanics realm, you’ll recognize some of these names. Dr. Val Massey taught our courses.
, Dr. Jack Morris taught . That’s alright for me. Came down Of course. Yeah. Yeah, it was just a, if you go through the history of podiatric biomechanics, San Francisco’s kind of a hotbed, right? It’s like the founding area.
And so when you, oh, Dr. How can I forget this? Dr. John Weed taught my first biomechanics course. Yes. And and then we had to, then we had to decipher that and figure out what everything meant.
Tyson Franklin: So was Richard Blake around your era as
Jeff Jensen: well? Dr. Blake during that time, he wasn’t teaching at the school, but he was still local.
Yeah, he’s still in San Francisco. So I got to see him lecture a couple of times but he was partners with Ron Velmasi in their practice also. Okay. I got to know Rich Blake [00:06:00] over the years though, and he was on one of my podcasts maybe
Tyson Franklin: six months ago. He’s been on this one as well earlier on and super nice guy, just a super nice guy.
Jeff Jensen: ahead of his time, before you and I were doing podcasts, rich Blake was on YouTube getting 5, 000 views on things like how to stretch your Achilles or how to deal with, he was way ahead of his time.
Tyson Franklin: Yeah. And that’s what I’ve really enjoyed doing this podcast too, is some of the people have had on the podcast.
These have been people that I’ve read their papers, their books, I’ve watched their videos. Yeah, over my career and then to actually have them on the podcast is yeah it’s a
Jeff Jensen: lot of fun. And the funny thing is you learn things that you never would have found out reading their books or chapters or their articles.
So yeah, this is a personal element of podcasting. That’s a lot of fun, I think.
Tyson Franklin: Yeah. And you you dig into things that, like you said, that they would never write in a book because it’s irrelevant, but it just comes out in a conversation. Absolutely. Okay. That’s great. I’d love to.
Okay, you’ve zipped over [00:07:00] to Detroit. You’re doing your residency there. How long did you stay in Detroit for?
Jeff Jensen: At the time, two year surgical residencies were standard. Now they’re three years for everybody, right? Yeah. I got, I had the opportunity to do a two year surgical program and it was really neat because when I went there, I got to also work with people that were absolute leaders in our profession.
Dr. Bill Todd, Dr. Guy Pup Dr. Gary Kaplan, Earl Kaplan’s son, Earl was the father of podiatric surgery. And current hospital. Before it was named Kern, it was Civic Hospital and Civic Hospital is the birthplace of podiatric surgery. So if you go through all of, all the tree, if you will, of surgeons in the United States of America.
All the way back into the late 50s, early 60s, most everybody came through Curran Hospital.
Tyson Franklin: You didn’t know a Dr. Leonard Winston by any chance, did you? No, I don’t know Leonard Winston. Okay, no, he was from around that area. He was the [00:08:00] first, when I graduated, the year I graduated was 88, in 1989. I’m on the Gold Coast, I’m at a bar, waiting for a friend.
All of a sudden I’m talking to this young American guy there. We’re chatting away and he said, what do you do? I said, I’m a podiatrist. He said, my dad’s a podiatrist. And I said I’ll be buggered. So he, then his dad comes in and his dad was Leonard Winston and he was the association that brought him over combination with Rockport at the time.
Rockport had just been released and they were doing tours all around the country. And so him and I got on like a house on a fire. So I hung around these guys for about four days on the Gold Coast. And that was my first exposure to an American podiatrist. Oh, very good. And it was an absolute eye opener and he left me all these different magazines that you guys had in the States that we did not have here.
He got me got subscriptions for me for different magazines as well. So it was yeah, right place at the right time.
Jeff Jensen: I was talking with Luke Ciccanelli. Do you know Luke? No. [00:09:00] So Luke went over to Australia and did some teaching maybe in the last 15 years or so, but I think it’s great that we all have these common grounds.
Podiatric medicine deals with the anatomy and, surgical and non surgical management of foot and ankle issues. That kind of brings all of us together, you
Tyson Franklin: know? Yeah. And that’s why I have the quote on my back wall. Yeah. The next connection you make could be the one that changes your life. There you go.
And I honestly believe that’s why you can do things online. It’s fine. But you need to attend live events, attending live events, the people you meet and the people you have a drink with around the bar afterwards. I know those connections can last a lifetime.
Jeff Jensen: It’s uncanny and you never know when it’s going to happen, do
Tyson Franklin: you?
Yeah, I know. Okay, so let’s get back onto your story. So you’re in Detroit. You did your two year residency there. Did you stay longer or did you? Go back for warmer weather. No.
Jeff Jensen: In about the last six months of my residency program, I was looking for jobs, right? And I had a couple offers. I had one [00:10:00] offer in Philadelphia, one to stay in Detroit, one in San Diego, California, and then one in Denver, Colorado.
And when it was all said and done, we decided to move to Denver where I joined a doctor whose practice was essentially clinical research. Yeah. I don’t know if Dr. Garrett Mulder. Garrett really was a leader in the early days of wound care before wound care was mainstream in podiatric medicine.
He was working with all the big companies at the time, Smith and Nephew, Johnson and Johnson, Convitec, all the companies that were looking at putting wound care dressings on the market and then doing lots of different clinical trials for new drugs and things, synthetic skin. I, we did some of the original studies on.
Dermagraph and Apligraph. So I was vaulted into this world of, yes, I wanted to practice podiatric medicine. Yes, I wanted to grow a practice, of course. But I had the opportunity to do clinical trials with Dr. Mulder.
Tyson Franklin: And that makes sense now because there’s a few other things that I dug up about you.
So that makes sense to how you [00:11:00] ended up down that path. So I’ll let you continue. This is interesting.
Jeff Jensen: Yes. So the reason the way I met Dr. Mulder was I did a rotation. Remember I was telling you about those clerkship rotations. I spent a month in Denver and I met Dr. Mulder and I wrote him a letter near the end of my residency and I said, I hope you remember me and all that kind of goes.
And he said, yeah, I would love, I need an associate. Come on out. We’ll do research together. It was fascinating and he introduced me into an incredible world of clinical trials and research that really. paid off a lot and kind of like the quote on your wall, you just never know when something’s gonna change your life.
Yeah. How many
Tyson Franklin: rotations did you end up doing? I think we did
Jeff Jensen: four that year. We had four, but now we’ve got the opportunity to do eight. But see some of our rotations when I was in San Francisco were in the Bay area. So they worked in a similar fashion, but it’s amazing. You.
You’ve got to reach out and meet really successful people and some of it rubs off on you [00:12:00] sometimes,
Tyson Franklin: I know obviously it did because I read that you’ve got ten , United States patents.
Jeff Jensen: Yeah, it’s actually 14 now.
Tyson Franklin: Oh, we’ve got to update the information that I dug up then. Yeah,
Jeff Jensen: no, that’s okay.
You know what I found Tyson I was practicing and seeing patients and following, what I thought were great clinical protocols and things. And then I was realizing that some of the clinical trials that I was participating on as an investigator, they weren’t really delivering to the patient what we were hoping they were going to deliver.
And. So I found an avenue where I could do National Institute of Health grants, where if I were to develop this idea, it could be a potentially patentable right? An innovative idea that does a few things, right? Something that, that will improve quality of care. Decreased cost of care. If you look at those and you can invent them I, I was very fortunate.
And it’s like anything, when you, the hardest patent that gets your first patent, right? Once [00:13:00] you’ve got, once you have the template down and you’re inventing things and you’re coming up with great ideas that you think are great. Anyway the marketplace might not think they’re great, but It’s a process of, putting the patents together and the provisional patents and non provisional patents.
So yeah, I’ve got 14 right now and I’ve got two more pending and I don’t know. I don’t know if I’ve got any great innovative ideas left in me, to be honest with you Tyson.
Tyson Franklin: Like you said, the first one’s a hard one because the thing is we all have ideas.
Everybody has ideas. It’s then taking some action on that And moving forward with it. But little, did you realize that when you took that, when you went from Detroit to Colorado, which is also a very nice area, is you didn’t know that down the track from that job, you would end up having 14 patents.
Jeff Jensen: I never did. I don’t know. We don’t know what opportunities lie before us
Tyson Franklin: really. Yeah. And to give people an idea, your patents are based around medical innovations, addressing diabetic foot ulcers, [00:14:00] offloading, post surgical care, fracture care,
Jeff Jensen: yeah. And then I got one recently.
I was working with Dr. Jason Hamm. And we were working on a kind of insole materials that we use for shoes and it was with Adam Lansman also out of Boston and my son, Danny, who was a soccer player we took some insole materials and we modified them to go into a headband and we patented a.
a protector for soccer players that would minimize the potential for concussions and head. So anyways, that was a fun thing too, but that wasn’t really in my scope. That’s proof Tyson that once you know how to get patents, it’s easy to pull, flip the switch and apply for another one.
Tyson Franklin: Yeah. I remember when I was at a university, I designed the sole of a football boot because when I was playing football, Under my first MPJ used to just get destroyed from the metal tags that used to come up. So I redesigned the sole and
after I did that, [00:15:00] and then I had no idea what I was doing. So I then sent some things off to a couple of different shoe companies about, Hey, have a look at this design. Now, none of them ever got back to me, but it wasn’t long after that, that some shoe designs came out a little bit different.
I wonder if.
Jeff Jensen: You know what? Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not after you, right? Yeah, I
Tyson Franklin: know. That’s what they always say. Remember that? That was all MASH. Remember when Hawkeye Pierce said that to Major Burns, he says, stop being paranoid. Well, I wouldn’t be paranoid if everyone wasn’t out to get me right, exactly.
Jeff Jensen: So the story you’re sharing is a story that I’ve had friends experience also. They’ve brought technologies, they’ve actually sold their patented technology to shoe companies and then the shoe company, they will put that technology. On the back burner and bring it out later for a future date, yeah, you gotta be careful.
You gotta protect your intellectual property. And
Tyson Franklin: that was something I learned from that. And throughout my career, there were two other times I was [00:16:00] burnt by other companies where I had an idea about something, approach them without protecting it first. And all three times going back to the one as a student and two times when I should have known better, it got burnt each time.
So it is one of those things. If you, I think if you’ve got an idea, go and talk to an attorney who specializes in that area, get yourself protected and then start sharing it with people. Don’t do it beforehand.
Jeff Jensen: Well, fOr anybody listening, you can do a non provisional patent fairly quickly and for very little money.
And it gives you a placeholder for your idea. And then once you’ve got that placeholder with a non provision with a provisional patent, it gives you a year to improve upon it. And then you can apply formally for the patent. So that way you can get out and talk to people and you can advance your technology without fear of losing it.
So there is a method to the madness, we’re not trained that in school. No. Is there to teach you about patent
Tyson Franklin: law or anything? Yeah. And sometimes too the ideas you have may [00:17:00] not even be within podiatry. It might be something that you just see that you go, wow, I can improve upon that. Or I have an idea about that.
But anyway, so when you were doing all this, did you have any contact with David Armstrong through the process since, yeah, the diabetes high risk feet?
Jeff Jensen: Oh, yeah. So when I was, when I graduated from the California College of Podiatric Medicine David Armstrong was about to start his third year there. Yeah. And then when I was at Kern hospital in Michigan, when I was leaving the residency program, David Armstrong was coming in. So David and I have, David and I know each other really well and we’ve worked together over the years.
And in fact, his daughter just graduated from my college in the Arizona college this.
Tyson Franklin: Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. . He was back on episode 34. Oh, yeah. Yeah, way back. Yeah. And he’s done a few things in his career as well, hasn’t he?
Jeff Jensen: I always tell a great story about David. When he was a student, he was rotating at our residency program. Yeah. And he was going to come there. And we used to do an [00:18:00] NBA fantasy league, fantasy draft for basketball. And we used to write all the picks on the chalkboard and David shows up and he opens up his backpack and he pulls out a computer.
Now, mind you, this is 1992, right? Yeah. It pulls out a computer, creates an Excel spreadsheet of the day, puts all the picks in, goes over, plugs it into the printer and prints out the end results. For us. And so David’s always been ahead of his time. David’s brilliant. Absolutely.
Tyson Franklin: It was funny because when he was on the podcast, one of the first things he said to me was, yeah, don’t tell anyone, but I’m not really that smart.
And I’m thinking yeah. Right.
Jeff Jensen: Yeah. He’s self deprecating. There’s no doubt. Oh
Tyson Franklin: yeah. And that’s, that’s what was it was probably, it was one of the earlier guests that actually held on the podcast that when he was coming on, I was a little bit nervous. Cause you’re thinking this guy’s got a big name.
Yeah. Everybody in the profession knows who he is. Don’t stuff this one up, Tyson. Don’t do the interview and then say something really [00:19:00] inappropriate that he goes, do not air that. But he ended up just being a really down to earth. Nice guy. Yeah. All you
Jeff Jensen: have to do is ask David a question and then step back and he’ll fill all this space.
Yeah. It was good. He’s a great he’s, he comes from a family of podiatrists also. So David’s a second generation. And Alexandria is third generation. So David’s done just tremendous things for our profession. We’re certainly all indebted to him for sure. Okay.
Tyson Franklin: So with your research you did in the patents, the 14 patents you had, then you were the senior director of research at Barry University.
So how did you, what was the process of going from Colorado to Barry University?
Jeff Jensen: Yeah, this is one of those moments like you have in the back of that quote up there. Yeah. So we had a residency program in Colorado and I was one of the faculty in the residency program and we would meet the, all of the doctors that were in the residency would meet once a month to talk about our program.
And what the residency director said, Hey Jeff, did you know that [00:20:00] there’s a Dean position open in Miami at Barry university? And I didn’t. But I went home and I looked it up and I thought, wow, that really sounds like a neat opportunity. So I wrote a quick little cover letter and my CV and I sent it off to Miami because I had no intention of becoming the Dean, right?
I was in practice. And be careful what you ask for Tyson. You never know, right? You get a phone call and there’s an interview. And next thing you know, my wife and I were sitting in the living room with our four kids saying, dad’s got an opportunity potentially to be the Dean.
Everybody, we gave everybody a veto vote, Tyson, because we lived in Evergreen, Colorado. It was beautiful. But we all decided to make the move to Miami, and I was the Dean there for four years. And I became the senior director of research after that for the entire university. And that’s, everything’s a little bit complicated, right?
My parents were getting older. My mom had dementia. My father was having some vascular dementia. Berry University was so good to me, Tyson. Even though I stepped down as the dean, [00:21:00] they made me the senior director of research. And then I could take care of my parents. and come back to Miami one week a month to fulfill my obligations in person.
But it was, I was working remotely before it was cool, they were good to me. So that’s how I became the senior director of research, but I learned a lot. In fact, some of the research we were doing was on. dementia. So it was very pertinent to my life. Even though I’m a foot and ankle doctor, right?
Tyson Franklin: the research wasn’t all just podiatry related.
Jeff Jensen: No, but we did some really cool research down there, Tyson. Within the school of podiatric medicine, I was also involved with the PA program and we developed a extending extender program for the PA. school, physician assistant school, where we were training like via zoom, like we’re doing virgin islands to become doctors.
And then we also had a big grant from the military. It was to look at multi drug resistant organisms which are pertinent, not only in, in Wounds in the field in war times, but they’re also pertinent to our patients, right? With diabetic foot [00:22:00] infections. So it was a topical application of nitric oxide, which is a universal antimicrobial.
And it’s a very small molecule. So if you put it under a little bit of pressure, it penetrates tissues and gets to the leading edge of infection. So that was a really cool study. We got a couple of million dollars to do that.
Tyson Franklin: So was that how you developed one of those patents?
Jeff Jensen: I’ve got a couple of patents around that, and we were really looking to build out the company and get investment money right about the time COVID hit. And then a lot of funding, whether it was, private equity or angel funding or venture capital, a lot of that funding stalled during COVID of course.
Tyson Franklin: Okay. Oh, go back a step. When you were back in Colorado. Is that where you met Jim McDannald?
Jeff Jensen: Yes. Yeah. I was the clerkship director. So I would bring students in from all the different schools and colleges of podiatric medicine for that month rotation, right? So I was in in charge of the students when they spent a month with us.
And that’s how I met Jim.
Tyson Franklin: Okay. And if anyone’s listened to the podiatry marketing [00:23:00] podcast that I do with Big Jim Mack, that’s who we’re talking about.
Jeff Jensen: It’s small world, Tyson.
Tyson Franklin: It is. It is a small world. And I love the way it all sort of, weaves together. So how did you, so after doing that research, Did you go from there to Arizona, or were there a couple of things in between?
Jeff Jensen: I was in Miami for seven years. Yeah. And I was quite happy. I loved Florida. Doing a lot of deep sea fishing and a lot of fun things.
Tyson Franklin: Miami to Arizona, completely different. Because the beaches in Arizona are not very good. Just to point that out to people that haven’t been to Arizona before.
Jeff Jensen: No, very rarely do people ask me about what I do, but they do ask me all the time. Which do you like more, Florida or Arizona? Because that’s a big question, where are people going to try it?
Tyson Franklin: Totally different. Because exactly the same thing I’ve said to my wife that, if I ever lived in America for any reason for an extended period of time, which I want to do, I want to do for a 12 month period, I said the two places I would live would either be[00:24:00] Nevada or Arizona.
They’re the two places that I’d choose. Now I live in the tropics. Palm trees and yeah, and tropical islands and coconuts . I love that arid desert environment. It’s
Jeff Jensen: so beautiful. You can hike, you can run trails, you can go fishing. You want to go skiing. You can go up to the mountains a couple hours away up in Flagstaff.
It’s an ideal area, Tyson. And when we moved here I was thinking it was just going to be warm all the time and what I didn’t realize that my daughter summed it up best. She said, dad. Arizona is too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter. And and there’s those extremes, right? Because it’s the desert.
Sometimes in the summer, I think this year we had 30 some days in a row over 110 degrees Fahrenheit. It was
Tyson Franklin: hot when I was there this year too.
Jeff Jensen: Yep. And then in the winter like this time of year it’s in the forties when we wake up in the morning. And then it gets up to around 75 degrees.
It’s absolutely beautiful. I would recommend when you come here at September [00:25:00] 15th and then leave June 15th. That’s the way to go.
Tyson Franklin: Like I said to you, I go every year and it’s usually in October. That’s beautiful. That’ll be turned up and it’s during the day it can still be quite hot, but in the mornings it’s really pleasant.
Jeff Jensen: For anybody that wants to come to Arizona, the sun shines about 330 days a year and there’s no earthquakes, there’s no hurricanes it’s just an outstanding area.
It’s a great place to live. And it’s,
Tyson Franklin: yeah, and interesting wildlife. I came across a rattlesnake and bobcat having a fight. So we’re on this path and I saw the rattlesnake, so I’m going to go and have a look. So I ran up there. My friend Dave Frees was following me and he kept yelling out uh, telling me don’t get too close to the rattlesnake.
He said they can jump. And all of a sudden I stopped. I said, why’d you stop? I said, there’s a big cat looking at me. He said. It’s not a mountain lion, is it? No. It’s just a bobcat. He goes, oh , don’t pat the cat. Anyway, next thing, they’re starting to have a fight. And I’m watching this.
And I said, how often does this happen? He said only in [00:26:00] National Geographic. There you go. There you go. And
Jeff Jensen: yeah. Tyson, we’ve been here seven years now. It’s our seventh year and we’ve seen a bunch of snakes. We’ve seen javelinas. But it’s just, it’s so beautiful, if you don’t harm them or if you’re not aggressive with them, they’re not going to be aggressive with
Tyson Franklin: you.
And road runners. I didn’t realize how small the road runner was.
Jeff Jensen: Yeah, because we all think of the Roadrunner on the cartoon.
Tyson Franklin: Yeah, but they’re only about, oh, nine inches high, if that.
Anyway, we should get back on to this. So. You’re now the Dean of Arizona College of Podiatric Medicine in Glendale, Arizona, which we will catch up in 2024 when I come over. Yes, indeed. And you also have the podcast Dean’s Chat Podcast. How did that come about?
What made you decide to do, to actually do that particular
Jeff Jensen: podcast? So I had one of those experiences where I was invited to do the podcast. At the studio in Scottsdale and my son was starting a podcast and I was going to be his guinea pig. So I said, [00:27:00] sure. Yeah, I’ll come down. And as I was finishing the podcast, I thought to myself, Oh my gosh, this is really cool.
Cause my job as a podcaster, my job is to bring in great guests and then the studio does all the editing and they put all my, everything together for me. So I quickly took a piece of paper, Tyson, and I thought, you can do a year’s program. They’ll help you with 52. Podcasts. And I thought I wonder if I know 52 people.
And on the back of a piece of paper in about two minutes, I wrote over 50 names of people in our profession that would be leaders, whether it’s the American Podiatric Medical Association or different associations like the American College of Foot and Ankle Surgeons or the American Board of Podiatric Medicine.
And then I thought to myself, then I could do deans of all the schools. I could do faculty. I could interview young practitioners. Yeah. Interview presidents. Tyson, as you know, better than anybody there’s an unlimited supply of wonderful people to interview.
Tyson Franklin: Oh I’m well in the three hundreds now.
[00:28:00] So Unbelievable. And there’s never, I’ve had some people come on multiple times, but there’s never a shortage of, of guests. And everybody, I say to everybody, everybody has a story if they’re willing to just talk. And if they don’t think they have a story, I’ll dig it out of them. There you go. That’s
Jeff Jensen: the key.
What’s interesting about all of it, Tyson, and sitting back and reflecting on the year. We’re in this little niche, right? It’s podiatric medicine, but within that niche, there are students, residents, practitioners, leaders, surgeons, it just never ends. So there’s all these little groups that you you do a show and you reach out to them and the people that watch one episode, aren’t the same people that watch the next one.
So that’s true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh I’m learning all of this and I’m again, my learning curve is vertical, right? I’m just loving it. I’m having so much fun. I have no, I just, I’m glad I stumbled onto podcasting. It’s really been a great year for me and I’m looking forward to doing more.[00:29:00]
Tyson Franklin: So you, you go into the actual studio itself and then from the studio, most of your guests are remote. They’re not live in the studio with you, are
Jeff Jensen: they? They’re live if they’re in town for some reason, or whether if it’s somebody like my students or faculty then of course they come into the studio, but most of them are zoom meetings, and I do most of them in almost all of them in the studio.
I’m not down in the studio today with you I’m in my house but yeah I’ve. I Found that if I’m in charge of the technology, there’s a tremendous chance that something’s going to go wrong. And so if I’m in charge of asking questions and inviting great guests, I can handle that. But I, my skill set hasn’t evolved to the point where I can like edit and things
Tyson Franklin: yet.
As long as you don’t have to push the buttons and and you know what, and this is the part I enjoy, like I. Organize the guests, we get everything all planned in. I do the recording, I do the edit, I get it out there. And I actually, I love the editing process and on my old [00:30:00] podcast, episodes. This one’s been over 300.
So I’ve done well over 500. Episodes that I’ve edited myself and people say, why don’t you outsource it to somebody else, but they don’t realize how much I learned from every guest when I’m doing the editing. So we’re talking now, which is great. And I’m learning a lot talking to you today. But then when I sit down and do the edit and I go through it slowly, I hear so many things I didn’t hear the first time.
And sometimes I sit there going. Should have asked a question there, but anyway, I didn’t and, but then when it’s all finished, sometimes I’ll go, if I’m doing a walk, taking the dog for a walk, I’ll put the episode on and listen to it again just to see what everybody else is hearing. And yeah, so I will just keep doing the editing process.
Jeff Jensen: I Like that. That’s interesting. You say that two comments, one, you’re the legend really, you know, The second comment is it’s always interesting because when I finish a podcast, [00:31:00] I’m always critical of myself. I could have done better. And then I’m like, Oh God, I should have done this.
But every time I go back and listen to it, I was like, Oh, that’s better than I thought it was going to be. Because just like you said, you miss things when you’re doing it live that you catch on the second or third review. Yeah. I’ve never posted anything up on YouTube or on the podcast channels without listening to a completely first, even after the edits and things.
Tyson Franklin: Yeah, it’s funny cause sometimes I’ll listen back and I’ll have a question in my head. Did I ask it? Cause I can’t remember. And then as you’re listening back to it, then all of a sudden I do ask the question, I go, Oh my God, thank you.
Cause I’m thinking someone could be driving the car at the moment thinking, come on Tyson, make sure you ask this question. So probably I would say 95 percent of the time I do ask the question, even when I’m listening back to it the second time that I did, but occasionally you miss the odd thing.
Jeff Jensen: I have to admit when I go back and listen to some of my earliest ones, I was super nervous, Tyson. I’m used to lecturing and, traveling around, giving talks and things, but for some reason, the day of my [00:32:00] first podcast, I was super nervous and I was interviewing the Dean.
The same day I interviewed two people, I interviewed the Dean, Dr. Stephanie Wu from the Scholl College in Chicago, and then the Dean from Miami. Dr. Rob Snyder. And I was like, I had an upset stomach. I’m like, Oh my gosh, why is this? And I was rather scripted to be honest with you. I didn’t want to make mistakes.
I want everybody to look good. I still do of course. But I’m just a little more comfortable in my own skin. It’s like anything, the more you do, perhaps the
Tyson Franklin: better you get. See, that’s really, I think it’s really good for people to hear that here you are, a podiatrist, this amazing career, you’ve had 14 patents and you go to start a podcast and you are nervous.
I was. And you get up and lecture in front of all these students and here you are going to do a podcast and you are nervous. That’s great to hear because I was exactly the same. Were you really? Oh, I remember the first in my old podcast, I remember episode number five, which no one [00:33:00] can get anymore because I pushed the wrong button somewhere and I lost, I I’ve got them all, but I.
They’re not actually online anywhere. It was the first guest I had that wasn’t someone who was a friend. And I remember doing the introduction and my voice was just crashing and burning as I’m doing the intro. Nobody mentioned it. Nobody said they could even hear it, but I could actually hear the tension in my voice.
And I did, I used to actually have a couple of questions down in case I got lost to keep me on track now. Yeah, I know who the guest is. I know what they’ve done. I have, I do not have one question planned because I just want to see where the conversation goes.
Jeff Jensen: I I’m learning from you, Tyson.
I’ve been getting like CVs and I make scribble little notes. Don’t forget to ask about this. Cause you know how sometimes you go on tangents and you get into the discussion. And so I try to make sure I circle around, but I don’t know. I think I’m getting a little bit better at it. I’m certainly enjoying it.
And I think that’s half the battle. If you love what you’re doing, you’re going to get better at it.
In order to get everything right, it takes practice and time. And in [00:34:00] fact, when I was giving my, doing my first couple of podcasts, I was up like at five o’clock in the morning, walking around doing my intro. Like I tried to do as many times as I could, because it didn’t feel natural to me. As soon as the camera was on me, I was, I didn’t.
I just felt different, if you’re given a lecture at a meeting, nobody’s filming it. Nobody’s going to be calling you on it. You can give me very free with what you’re saying. The second that people are documenting it, like we are it’s out for the public consumption. And that, that, that brings in a certain element of stress.
I don’t feel it anymore, but I did early on like you.
Tyson Franklin: Yeah. I think one of the things that really helped me overcome any sort of public speaking every now. 2019, was it in Liverpool at a foot and ankle show over there, thousand people in the crowd. I had just had to get them to do this 15 minute. And I remember sitting down, you know, standing there, ready to go up on stage, getting introduced, looking at a thousand people and just thinking to myself, I wish I’d worn [00:35:00] brown pants.
Because I was like, my God, but I got up there and I thought, you cannot be good preparation and practice. It’s just rehearsing. You rehearse enough. It will just come to you. And it’s get through the first 60 seconds. If you can make the crowd laugh or just do something that relaxes you, as soon as you get through that 60, the rest just flows that, and that’s what I keep telling myself, no matter where I speak now, I know I’m going to be nervous.
60 seconds. I’m just going to get through the first 60 seconds.
Jeff Jensen: Yeah I’ve been asked to give presentations on topics I didn’t feel like I was really knowledgeable or expert on. And I usually turn those down, cause that requires a lot of research and a lot of, a ton of preparation and all of us can talk about things.
Oftentimes you could ask, are there a few subjects that you could talk about where you wouldn’t for 15 minutes where you don’t have to take any notes or any slides and you could be an authority on that. And [00:36:00] I try to stick with a net narrow area
Tyson Franklin: for me. That’s really good advice.
That’s great advice. Because when I’ve heard people say that they don’t want to do public speaking, they go, Oh yeah, they’re scared about what they’re going to say. Like I wouldn’t get up in front of a podiatry group and talk about anything scientific. Because I would feel I’m out of my element and there’s people that know that subject far better than what I do.
Put me in front of a rotary group and talk about heel pain. I’ll kill it because I know more about that than that particular group. So it’s picking your topic for the audience, but put me in front of a thousand people and say, Hey, show them some demonstration, how to use semi compressed felt to make different padding.
I’ll kill it because I know I’m really
Jeff Jensen: good at that. It was like when you asked me about the patent process earlier, I could talk about that for an hour, it’d be really fun. But if you ask me some, something that I don’t, it’s not in my wheelhouse, it’s not there. So you’re only good at what you’re knowing what you’re passionate about.
And then the other thing I was going to mention Tyson is and this is an old adage, I think, but the two [00:37:00] hardest things to do and the things that people are most afraid of are speaking in public and raising money.
Tyson Franklin: I remember seeing this thing once and it said this is one of the talks I did once.
And it was two biggest fears. First one is public speaking. The second one is death by fire. So people would rather die in a fire than do public speaking.
Jeff Jensen: Yeah. Yeah. That’s crazy. Although I’ll tell you I’ve met so many people that, you start, you meet them, whether it’s in a meeting or at work, or if it was a patient, you get them talking about something they’re passionate about.
They could give a lecture on it. No problem.
Tyson Franklin: Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I think, and that’s why I like, I love getting people on the podcast who say to me, Oh, I’m not a legend. I’ve got nothing to say, but I know enough about them, or I’ve done a little bit of digging that I go, yeah, you’ve got a story in there, which I think people will learn something from, and nearly every person when they come on here and they finish, when I press stop, they go, Oh, that was so fast.[00:38:00]
And that was so much better than I thought it was going to be. Yeah. And they say it’s fun too. Which is great. Oh, it’s fun. It’s a lot of fun. That’s why I keep doing it. It’s just, it’s fun.
Jeff Jensen: iF it’s not fun, you probably should find something else to do. Nobody, nobody works as a part of a life sentence.
It’s something right. I love being the Dean. I love doing the podcast. I love being with students. I love educating. So it’s not hard work. It’s not work actually.
Tyson Franklin: Yeah. So where you are now in Arizona, you think this is where your career will finish here or do you think you’ll just keep going until you drop?
Jeff Jensen: That’s a good question. I don’t know the answer to that, but I do know that if I’m intrigued and I’ve, I’m curious by nature I like to do things. My job’s fabulous right now. I get to interview great students that are undergrads and bring them into our college. Our college is phenomenal in terms of board scores and things.
And I would have fabulous faculty and lots of support from the university. So I’m not in any way, shape or form [00:39:00] looking for something, I’ve learned a long time ago to never say never Tyson to potential opportunity.
Tyson Franklin: No, I think that’s good advice. Hey, question about the university though.
So if somebody in America wanted to do podiatry. They’ve done that undergraduate degree. Do they apply to like four or five different schools and then the school looks at their marks and everything else and then chooses them or do they choose the school? How’s that actually work?
Jeff Jensen: So many of the professions in the United States has a, have a central application service.
Yeah. So Tyson, let’s say you, you went back and took all your prerequisites or your son or somebody or daughter, and then they say, I want to be a podiatrist. There’s a centralized application service where they upload all of their transcripts and their medical college admission test scores, the MCAT it’s called.
And then from that central application service, they can designate which colleges that they want to apply to. Okay. So, So for example, when I was coming through, I don’t know that we really had that [00:40:00] back in the 90s, but for today students can go on and apply to all 11 colleges of podiatric medicine. I should, let me temper that a little bit.
They can apply to 10 of them. Because the college in Texas has its own application service. They don’t participate in with everybody else, but that said, it’s really easy then for a student, right? If you want to be a podiatrist, you just click the buttons and then all of your information will go to those colleges and then it’s incumbent upon the colleges to reach out to the student and set up interviews and, you know, whether they come to the campus or we do it on zoom, like we’re doing here.
We’re always looking for fit. You know, Tyson, what I typically say to students is, look, if you’re passionate about podiatry and you’re smart, we give you an interview because you’ve done well, and then you have a few distractions, right? You, if you come to our school, you got to be all in, you know, it’s not like you’re going to be working a part time job or something.
If you put those three things together, you’re well on your way. And then you have a tremendous opportunity to get a great [00:41:00] residency program. And it, you can’t really take it lightly. It’s an honor and a privilege. To do surgery on fellow human beings. So it’s a process.
It’s a seven year process. But um, I from what I’ve seen, I’m so proud of my students. I’m going to meetings now and students that I had in, 10, 12 years ago are giving lectures at the big meetings and I’m super proud of them. And, they’re advancing our profession. You got to pass on the, pass the torch, right?
Tyson Franklin: Yeah, I think that’s great because it’s like, I always say that I know that I’ll never find the cure for cancer. I’ve said this multiple times on the podcast. I said, but I hope one day I do something or I do something that inspires somebody else. And it could be this particular episode.
Someone could be listening to this episode of you and I talking today in a couple of years time, they listen to this episode and from that just set something off in their head and they go on and change the world or they go on and do something great. And then their children go on and change the world and find the cure for cancer.
Jeff Jensen: Absolutely. [00:42:00] Yeah. Yeah. Human beings have
Tyson Franklin: potential. Yeah. And like my focus now, like I do business coaching, with podiatrists and some of the people that I’ve helped and seen what they’ve done with their businesses over the last few years, I sit back and just go, Oh God, you’re like.
Early 30s, I said, where your business is now is like miles ahead of where I was at the same age. What are you going to do with this in years to come? And it makes me feel really good knowing that they’re doing far better than I ever did. Yeah. But you sort, but you’ve helped them along that journey, which is great.
Jeff Jensen: No, there’s a lot of gratification there. And and a lot of the students are, they’re really special. They’ll come back and I’ll see them at meetings and they’ll bring up something that may have been said at a meeting when they were students. And I always tell students there’s the 5 percent rule or 3 percent rule can be five.
I tell them, look, here’s the 3 percent rule. You’re going to be working for 10 hours a day out on rotations. That’s 600 minutes, right? [00:43:00] 3 percent of that is 18, 18 minutes. If you come in early 18 minutes or stay late 18 minutes or you do a little bit more than everybody else, they’re going to remember you and you’re going to get that residency program.
So I’ll be at a meeting, Tyson, and I’ll have a student come up and say, Oh my gosh, Dr. Jensen, I haven’t seen you in 10 years. You’re right. The 3 percent rule still works.
Tyson Franklin: Ah, that is so true. I was going to ask you for a final tip, but I think that is a perfect final tip. The 3 percent rule, because I always say that to people, if you want to have a better business than the person down the road, you don’t need to do 100 percent more.
You just need to do, we’ll say 3%, but 10 percent more than what everybody else is doing. And you will stand out and you will grow whether it’s your business or whether it’s your career.
Jeff Jensen: And then the funny part about that is if you stay 20 minutes more and then the doc has you over at the hospital working up a patient, you may be there for three more hours.
It’s so awesome and you’re loving it, so yeah I’d like that rule. Any rule [00:44:00] that I feel like I can give my kids, I feel real comfortable giving to my students. Yeah,
Tyson Franklin: there was a public speaker he was a professional speaker, and he said to me, the one tip he gave me that I thought was really good, he said, if you’re ever speaking at an event, he said, turn up early.
Ask if you can help. He said, stay behind afterwards, ask if you can help and be there to answer questions. Don’t just rock in exactly when you’re supposed to speak, do the talk and then bugger off. He said, if you’re there and they can see that you’re helpful and you’re there afterwards, and they can see that you really want to participate in whatever this group was, he said, you’ll get invited back.
Jeff Jensen: Absolutely. It’s a version of the 3 percent rule. Sounds
Tyson Franklin: the same. It is the 3 percent rule. So, Jeff, I want to thank you for coming on the Podiatry Legends podcast. This has been fun. Uh, I Recommend people go and check out the Dean’s Chat Podcast, go and have a listen and it will help build your numbers up.
But remember, come back here and still listen to the Podiatry Legends podcast, don’t leave us all [00:45:00] alone.
Jeff Jensen: Absolutely. We’ll get on and we’ll pump the podcast for sure. And I talked to Jim McDannald about that too, so I look forward to that. Tyson, I’m so thankful that you invited me on the show and I’m so glad we got to spend some time together.
Tyson Franklin: has been fantastic. So thank you very much. All right. Cheers. Okay. Bye.
Jeff Jensen: Bye.