386 – How Poor Communication Destroys Trust (Part 1)

Oct 1, 2025

When I sat down with Dr Fern Kazlow (better known as Dr K), I knew it would be a conversation that would challenge how I think about communication, connection, and trust. This episode ran for nearly two hours, which is why I’ve decided to release it in two parts. What you’re about to read is based on Part One, where Dr K and I delve into how communication shapes our professional and personal lives, and why it can also destroy trust.

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Why Communication Matters More Than Ever

Since Dr K’s last appearance on the podcast in 2021, the world has undergone significant changes. We’ve seen massive growth in systemisation, automation, and AI tools. While these tools save time, they can never replace human connection. Patients, clients, staff, and colleagues still crave authenticity. They want to feel heard, seen, and understood. If we fail to provide that, we risk losing their trust—and ultimately their loyalty.

Connection-Powered Business

Dr K introduced the concept of “connection-powered business” and “connection-powered marketing.” It sounds simple, just connect with people, but as she explains, it requires deep listening and presence. Are we really hearing what our patients say, or are we simply going through the motions? Connection is not just about sending another newsletter; it’s about showing genuine care and attention.

The Pitfalls of Outsourcing Authenticity

Many professionals outsource their marketing and social media to agencies or AI tools. But Dr K makes a strong case that this approach weakens trust. Patients can feel when something isn’t authentic. If posts, ads, or emails don’t sound like they come from you, they’ll disengage. Worse still, you may come across as insincere or disconnected.

I couldn’t agree more. This is why I still edit my own podcasts. When I listen back, I keep my audience in mind, removing what doesn’t add value and adjusting where needed. It’s not just about content; it’s about respect for the listener’s time. 

Communication Builds Loyalty

One of the most powerful takeaways from this episode is that effective communication has a direct impact on loyalty. Patients don’t just stay with you because of clinical outcomes; they stay because they trust you. Even when outcomes aren’t perfect, honest communication and genuine care go a long way. People will forgive mistakes if they feel a sense of connection. They won’t forgive being dismissed or ignored.

Presence Over Perfection

Dr K emphasises the importance of being fully present in every interaction, whether with patients, staff, or colleagues. This isn’t something we’re taught in university or medical school, but it’s critical. Patients can tell when we’re distracted, rushed, or thinking about the next person in line. Presence builds trust. Distraction erodes it.

Communication Reduces Risk

Interestingly, research shows that the majority of malpractice claims could be avoided if practitioners maintained clear lines of communication with patients. It’s not always about the outcome; it’s about whether patients feel listened to and respected. Poor communication leaves space for assumptions, frustration, and even litigation.

Final Thoughts

This is only the first half of my conversation with Dr K. In Part Two, we’ll continue unpacking how professionals can strengthen trust, handle fear and uncertainty, and maintain joy in their practice. For now, the key message is clear: communication is connection, and connection is everything.

If you found value in this episode, make sure you subscribe to the Podiatry Legends Podcast so you don’t miss Part Two of my conversation with Dr K. 

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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT (Unedited)

Tyson E Franklin: [00:00:00] Okay. With me is Dr. Fern Kazlow aka Dr. K. It is good to have you back on the podcast. The last time you were on here, I just went and checked through my past episodes, was episode 167, and that was August, 2021. We were talking about Top of Your Field.

That’s four years ago.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Wow. Wow.

Tyson E Franklin: Doesn’t time fly.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Really appreciate being back and your invitation. This is, it was always fun before, and I can’t believe it’s that many years.

Tyson E Franklin: It is fantastic to have you back.

And I know every time you share information it messes with my head a little bit because it’s usually gets you thinking about stuff you don’t normally think about.

Dr Fern Kazlow: and it’s pretty interesting ’cause the world is pretty different since 2021. A lot has happened. So while something’s about the psychology of high achievers, professionals are kind of how they’re wired. Yeah. And are there, there are other things that have really been impacted by a [00:01:00] different world that we’re living in from the last time we spoke.

Tyson E Franklin: Because that’s the thing you mostly work with, just high achievers. That’s why it’s fantastic to get you on here. ’cause I know the caliber of the people you normally work with and you are based in New York. And so to get you on this podcast to be talking to me and podiatrists in general I think is pretty awesome.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Well, I’m excited about it. This is my passion, you know that. So let’s go.

Tyson E Franklin: Okay. So what point are we starting on first?

Dr Fern Kazlow: I think one of the things since we talked about 2021 to now Yeah. Is that we’re in a different world and one of the things that has always been true but is more true than ever is something that I’ve coined connection powered business, connection powered marketing.

And it sounds super simple, but it’s really not. On the simple part, it’s really like connect with your audience. Yeah. Connect with your patients, connecting your ads, connect with [00:02:00] yourself. Right. But on another level, all of the things in our psychology that interfere, some of which I wanna talk about today, really make that a lot more challenging.

And it’s always been important and , people would say that thing like, it’s not personal, it’s business. To me it’s always personal.

Tyson E Franklin: It’s all personal. That’s

Dr Fern Kazlow: why you and I are talking. ’cause it’s always personal. It’s like there’s a connection or there’s not. And one of the things that people are not.

I don’t think as aware of as they need to be is that in a time that’s moving so much towards, AI and systemization automation, all of that, the importance of human connection is more important than ever. And I think it goes for our businesses, our relationships with our patients, our staff, our colleagues, like across the board, and the way we market because we’re not usually paying attention.

You know, we’ve got so much that impinges on us both from the world and our own inner [00:03:00] psychology, , and day-to-day events that we don’t tend to pay attention to. Am I fully present? Am I connected? Am I really deeply listening? And not only am I, but does the person I’m talking to, whether it’s a patient or someone even in an ad, can they feel that I’m listening?

Yeah. Can they feel that I know ’em, that I hear them and I’m not just talking at them, which, , is one of the things that gets me crazy. And it leads to gaslighting and it leads to all kinds of things that are just yucky. And we don’t understand why people leave from us and they go like, why is that practitioner over there always busy?

Why do I do as well in my practice? The thing that, , the compliment that people have given me for so many years, that is the one I’m most proud about, is you get me like no one else does, and you can help me like no one else does or has. And that’s because of really being present and really listening to them.

It’s not about me. It’s about the us it’s about the collaboration. [00:04:00] And I think when we’re busy professionals, it’s easy to, , be moving from room to room and just letting someone else do our marketing. But if it’s not your connection and what you wanna put out into the world, it’s not gonna do the same thing.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. So connection is not just sending out the next newsletter, the connection is actually really understanding who your patients are and just connecting with them on a, much higher level.

Dr Fern Kazlow: One of the things, I can drive people crazy with this sometimes. Yeah. , Especially if it’s anybody helping me with marketing or anything like that.

And I’m always looking at does this connect? Will my patients, will my audience, will my clients, whoever I’m speaking to, will they feel like I understand them? Will they get what I’m saying? But more important will they feel that I really know where they’re at. And I’m not just putting a system or my beliefs or my way.

I look at, healthcare on them. I’m listening to what [00:05:00] they need, what they’re expressing. And you can do that, whether it’s in a treatment room, whether it’s in the waiting room, whether it’s in an ad, a newsletter. It’s not. People are indicted by information. They don’t need more information.

Tyson E Franklin: Mm-hmm.

Dr Fern Kazlow: So they need transformation, which I totally believe with what I do. But beyond all of that. They need connection. They need to have their own sovereignty, their own sense of self, but they need to have it in a world where there’s connection. And that’s what our patients, our clients are everybody that we deal with.

Same. It’s basic.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. It’s even with the podcast, I edit all my own podcasts. I don’t send it off somewhere and I know a lot of people who have got podcasts, they do the episode, , and they’re done. As soon as they press end and they’ve stopped recording, that’s the last time they even think about that episode.

And they send it off somewhere. Somebody will, do the edit, do the social media snippets, do the artwork, and they, and then they’ll, , program it all in to go out there and they don’t give that [00:06:00] episode another thought, once they stop recording. Whereas when I do the edit one because I wanna listen to my guests again.

I pick up so much from it, but at the same time, when I’m doing the edit, I have my listeners in mind and sometimes I will take things out ’cause I go, no, I don’t think that’s the best thing for them. Or I’ll move things around. I’ll change the sound a little bit because if they’re gonna give up an hour to listen to this show, I want it to be the best use of that particular hour.

When I do any posts, any social media posts or my notes, everything I do is in mind. I’m thinking of the reader, the listener, the people that follow this podcast ’cause I wanna give them the best experience. It’s not just plus. Must be, there is a little selfish aspect where I get to listen to the podcast again myself, very slowly.

Dr Fern Kazlow: There’s another selfish thing, but in which is also really good in addition to what you learn from them. And that is that when you don’t [00:07:00] connect, it not only costs your practice, your marketing, your funnel, and the markets market terms, but what it also does is it impacts you. You get more disconnected from your practice, you lose the fulfillment, you lose the joy and your difference.

You can see it every time you and I get on Zoom, whether we’re talking, whether we’re doing a podcast, you’re on fire, same as me. And that’s not something that happens when you just hit end and send it off. One is it gets distorted, which is yeah, a pet peeve of mine, right? It’s it the way things get connected, chopped cut, lose the context.

And that’s one of the real issues that I see many issues with AI, but it’s one of the things happening now is people just outsource their thinking, their connecting. And it misses the point. But what people don’t think about is that it also disconnects you from your business, from your patients, from your marketing, from all of it.

And then you lose your joy. You lose the very things that fueled you about it.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. I got a friend [00:08:00] Tom Foster, who has foster web marketing, and he says that you should, your social media posts like on Facebook, Instagram, you should be doing them yourself because social media is supposed to be about social, so those posts really should be coming from you and what is it that you want to say to your patients and at what time?

Not a marketing company. Just go, have I got all this generic stuff that we’re just gonna post on there? And you can really tell the difference between something that comes from the heart of the business owner compared to something that is just thrown out there just to fill a space.

Dr Fern Kazlow: And it’s totally different and it can get into trouble. Years ago a friend who had outsourced before it was AI or anything, but they had someone else doing their social media and they were talking to me and as if they were her.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.

Dr Fern Kazlow: And they didn’t know that we were very connected professionally and it was off-putting.

It was [00:09:00] very, very, very weird. And so you can talk to a patient and not know what you said if you didn’t do it yourself. That’s true. You meet them in the office next time you meet them at , the supermarket, whatever, and they kind of say, you, you know, what you said to me was really thought provoking or what you said kind of pissed me off and you have no idea.

What it is that they’re reacting to. So yeah, it really, to me, important it takes time. But otherwise, what’s the point if it’s gonna work neutrally or even against you. And I think as time goes on, it’s gonna get, become more and more of an issue, as people are using AI agents

Tyson E Franklin: to

Dr Fern Kazlow: comment. And then people were talking about, well, humans even be on social media.

Or will one agent talk to the next agent?

Tyson E Franklin: I dealt with a company the other day and I had a problem with something. I can’t remember who it was. And all of a sudden this thing popped up on the, so I says, do you need help? And I put in there only if you are a human. I said, because I don’t want to be [00:10:00] going backwards and forwards.

You asking me dumb questions when I’m just giving you, I’m telling you exactly what’s going on. And then you AI’s asked me stupid questions that is not related to what I just said. And the person actually went, no, sorry. I am actually a human. I’m sitting here. In my clothes and I asked a question, bang, they answered it straight away.

I wouldn’t have got that. If it had been ai, I would’ve just got frustrated.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Yeah, it totally, and even one of the things that’s really been interesting to me is one of the major AI companies, they lost one of my chats and I messaged them through their bot because that was the only way you could not get a human for one month.

One month. They kept saying to me, it’s fine, and I kept showing them the documentation from them that said it wasn’t. A month later, I get a message, did you try all these things? I said, you’ve only asked me that every single time and every single time I’ve said yes,

Tyson E Franklin: yeah, I

Dr Fern Kazlow: can’t even a month [00:11:00] later, I don’t care about that chat anymore.

I do care about the fact that you really let me down as a customer, and now that there’s a lot of problems lately with ai, I don’t even have any interest in reaching out because I don’t have time for that. It feels very, disrespectful isn’t even the right word. It’s like, what are you, what do your customers mean to you?

What is your real point here, other than your pocketbook and your power? Not in a good way, , I’m not so thrilled.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah, I’m on YouTube a fair bit and , the ads pop up, so this ad pops up. He’s got this young dude there, he’s got his hat on backwards, which is always a good sign, and, and he’s talking about, I’ve got AI that does my calendar and AI does this, and then AI finds my prospects and then sells my prospects, and I just sit back and I’m making a hundred thousand dollars a month.

You should join my program and I’ll teach you how. And I’m watching this and in the background, I’m going, Hmm, [00:12:00] I reckon you should have made your bed before you did this video. I’m thinking you, you’re living at your parents’ place I can see everything around your bedroom.

I’m going, did you not think, you have not connected with me in any way whatsoever. But unfortunately I see a lot of businesses where they’re outsourcing so much to other companies and AI and other places that they are, they’re losing that connection with their patients, customers, clients.

Dr Fern Kazlow: And, and I don’t wanna say there’s not value because there are some amazing Oh yeah.

Things that it will do. But I think it is a very slippery slope. And I think the companies have seen that and now they’re putting guardrails on that are actually taking away from the effectiveness of what they created and. The product is not working. It’s pretty broken at the moment. But yeah, there’s a lot of compelling things.

I saw one [00:13:00] professional who had a whole setup of, I think it was five, four or five agents that talked to each other. Yeah. They could identify when something went wrong with the client, they could then set up a plan for what to do about it. They decided when a human had to get involved and then what the human should say.

Tyson E Franklin: Mm-hmm. So there are positives. It can save time, absolutely. But I believe like in a Podiatry point of view, and with your patients, if you use it where you need to use it, but if you can maintain that connection at a higher level with your patients will love it and they will keep coming back.

And then when they’re at a party, they’re talking to friends, they’ll be talking about, and I always say that’s the difference between. A Podiatrist, the Podiatrist and my Podiatrist. Mm-hmm. The ones that are connected, they’ll say, my Podiatrist is Tyson. Not just, oh, I saw a Podiatrist down at [00:14:00] this clinic, or I saw the Podiatry at this clinic.

They’ll be going, my Podiatry is, and that’s how they’ll explain it.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Yeah. That’s so huge. I’ve had my share of health issues and I’m, I always say I’m the poster child for medicine that’s gone wrong. At the same time. Doctors that connect, it’s different. My husband said to me the other day about, why was I going back to a certain doctor?

I was like, I don’t know. It’s , because there’s a relationship.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. It’s

Dr Fern Kazlow: why he was like, he said, the doctor said he didn’t have anything for you. I said, yeah. And he said, come back in six weeks. , my husband said, why are you doing it? And I’m like, it’s about the relationship.

Tyson E Franklin: It’s true. It

Dr Fern Kazlow: really is. It’s like he’s part of the team. He may not be producing at the moment, but he’s part of the team and he’s connected and he’s listening. And so those things really go a long way. Even when they may not fix your feet. They go a long way. And when you combine that with really good medicine, it’s, you can’t beat it.

Tyson E Franklin: To me, I think it’s also when you are dealing with patients, [00:15:00] if you have a good connection with your patients, and if you said to your receptionist, oh, can you bring this patient and say, Hey, they need to come in ’cause it’s been six months, 12 months, that patient will come in because you have asked ’em to, if they don’t really know who you are and they have no connection with you and your receptionist rings, they’re gonna go, have you bought a new car and you need to pay it off quicker?

Is that why you need me to come?

Dr Fern Kazlow: Right, right, right. College fund, boat, what is it? New house.

Tyson E Franklin: Exactly. Yeah. You put an extension on your house, you need, need your patients back.

Dr Fern Kazlow: And that’s true for ever. I mean, that goes for every professional. We see it with podiatrists, with veterinarians, with therapists, with surgeons.

It’s like, do I really need this? If you don’t have that connection, you don’t have the trust.

Tyson E Franklin: Mm-hmm. And I’ve said that patient’s joking around, I go, look, I’m gonna get you back in 12 months time. ’cause they’re around now. I’ll probably need to change the tires on my Porsche. And they just look at me.

They laugh and they go, do you have a Porsche? I go, of course I don’t have a Porsche. I said, but it was funny. [00:16:00] And they go, that was funny. And so I used to joke around with them a lot.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Interesting. I love it.

Tyson E Franklin: So where do we move on from here?

Dr Fern Kazlow: So I think one of the places we move on from here is we look at what interferes with that.

Right? It’s like, I think you and I clearly know it, other professionals, podiatrists, dentists, what? , All kinds of professionals. But we’re talking podiatrists right now.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah,

Dr Fern Kazlow: they know it but for all of us, what interferes And it’s our own stuff. That interferes and high achievers have special breed of their own stuff, right?

Everybody has things, but high achieving professionals, physicians, they’re just particular things that tend to come up. And you’ve heard them we’ve talked about them. They’re things like, no matter how successful, you may not feel like you’re enough, you may feel like other people are ahead of you.

There’s so many things. It’s like both sides. People say imposter syndrome. I always say [00:17:00] that’s complicated because imposter syndrome could be a real signal to you that you are faking it, that maybe there’s something you need to know, right? So you have all sides of it. You’ve got the, I don’t feel like I’m good enough, and you have the, I’m so good.

How come they’re ahead of me? You know, what am I doing? What’s wrong? That that’s happening. You have the isolation.

Tyson E Franklin: Oh yeah. And

Dr Fern Kazlow: I mean, huge. The experience that you’re going through from your patients, seeing you one way. Right. Do you have a Porsche? And I think it’s really actually a super powerful thing that you joke about it because it is in patients’ minds and so to bring it out and you can both laugh about it.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Really like, builds the trust that you are not that person just going for the new tires or the new whatever it is that you might be, going for. So I think it’s really important because it is the conversation in their mind is, you know, is, is this real? So I think that our own sense of fakeness, [00:18:00] our own sense of inadequacy, our own isolation or lack of joy in the practice when it gets to be a drag with all the paperwork, all the things that are going on now, the, I don’t know if you have it, I don’t know.

You and I talked a little bit about insurance, but in the states, the insurance companies are running the practices now.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. No diff different over here. It’s nowhere near as bad as the US.

Dr Fern Kazlow: They’re calling doctors out of emergency rooms to talk about treatment that they’re denying. I mean, crazy, crazy stuff.

So all of these things that if we’re not dealing with them as professionals within ourself and getting those things sorted out, we actually convey something is off. So one, we don’t feel good, right? Mm-hmm. And it affects our relationships, our health, our ability business to not only build our business, but to enjoy it.

But we’re also transmitting something. Patients don’t know what they’re picking up. They’re picking up something, but they don’t know what it is. So when [00:19:00] we are not aligned, when we’re not connected with ourselves, when we’re struggling with these issues, they feel something they don’t know what it is, and you know what they do with it, then

Tyson E Franklin: no

Dr Fern Kazlow: what they do with it is they translate it in terms of their own issues.

Tyson E Franklin: Okay?

Dr Fern Kazlow: So. If they’re somebody who’s greedy, they see you as greedy. If they’re somebody who wonders about how competent they are, they may put that on you. So it’s really important that we are clear, because it’s easy enough for patients to put stuff on us and prospective patients, but when we’re transmitting it, it hurts us.

It hurts our relationships, our health, but it also gives fodder for patients to put spins on things because they’re picking up something and they don’t know what. What do you think about that, Tyson? Is that

Tyson E Franklin: Well, yeah, no, it makes sense because like I’ve been in a business for example, where , they fit more patients in than they can possibly see in the day.[00:20:00]

So if I go to a doctor surgery, normally before I turn up, I’ll ring ahead and go, can you tell me how far behind the doctor is? I say, ’cause I’m not gonna sit there for an hour. I’ve got other things to do. Straight A to me, this. I get the feeling you don’t respect my time. You are more important than me.

That’s what you’re telling me. You’ve crammed more patients in, so therefore are you greedy? Instead of just treating who you can and making what you can. If you wanna make more money, put your prices up. But I, I still wanna be in at my appointments at 10:00 AM I wanna be in 10, 10 past. I understand emergencies happen, but people running behind.

There’s multitudes of things that goes through people’s heads and their opinion of you when that happens. And sometimes then conversations are rushed and you’re thinking, are they even listening to me now? Or they just thinking, I’ve gotta get to the next patient. Is my problem not important? It’s important to me.

Maybe I should be seeing somebody else. And all these thoughts are going through your head in a half hour period of [00:21:00] time. It’s

Dr Fern Kazlow: true. I mean, it’s very, it’s very possible. You’re preoccupied with the timing. So being clear and being really present what you’re bringing up is really important. ’cause not only can they make the assumptions, but a lot of times we’re thinking about the next person and I’m late and all this kind of stuff.

And then it really is, we’re not fully present. Being fully present is not something that people, it’s not what they’re taught in medical school or therapy school or, I’ve never been to Podiatry school, but I’ve worked with a lot of health professionals and helped them both personally and with building their, their practices.

I haven’t met one who was taught about really being present about really having their feelings. They’re taught to move on, push through, not get too, look empathetic, but not be so empathetic. It’s crazy. Yeah, it’s crazy. Instead of teaching people to really connect and to feel the empathy, but not to have it like hurt you.

That’s an important [00:22:00] distinction. It’s not taught in medical school. So patients end up feeling like this wall that you’ve been taught to put up and it undermines the treatment. There’s a study years ago and I don’t know that it’s the only one that would say this is the factor, but it was fascinating to me because it said the biggest factor in that study that influenced patients getting well from cancer was what their doctor believed.

Tyson E Franklin: Okay.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Not what they believed, but what their doctor believed.

Tyson E Franklin: I went to the GP a couple of weeks ago, and the one that I normally see, I couldn’t give it for two months, so I thought, oh, I’ll just go and see one of the other people at work at the medical center.

It’s a nice place booked in. They were running on time, which is great. Got in there. Checked out the problem that I had, it was another injury. Of course. I, I’m always injuring myself and he said, oh, I noticed here that you have not had this particular blood test, for prostate cancer, whatever. It was done for the last two years.

Really important to get [00:23:00] this done. Super important to get this done. Not a problem. Right? To me, the referral, I can get the blood test straight away. Never heard back from him. I still haven’t heard back from him. And, but then we saw online, oh, he left the week after seeing me and I’m going, okay, so what’s the story?

Did I really need to get this done? If I did get it done, what were your protocols of getting in touch with me to say whether the results were good, the results are bad. Did somebody need to see me or do I just wait another year until the next time I go in there? And then is that year too late? So all of a sudden now we’ve got all these crazy thoughts going through my head.

Should I be going to a different medical center? Should I be getting a different doctor? Does this medical center even care about me?

Dr Fern Kazlow: No, it’s, and it’s not crazy. I have an optometrist that I love. I mean, he’s really good in a lot of ways, but he also, I had a test [00:24:00] and he never gave me the results of it.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.

Dr Fern Kazlow: In a year of sending him emails, , could you tell me, what the test showed? Did he mean badly? No, but he didn’t pay attention and I haven’t been back. I need to go back. He’s been the best I’ve seen, and yet I’m now a couple years out because what’s the point of having an expensive test paying for it?

Mm. And then he doesn’t bother to get back. So it’s interesting. We have an understanding of all the things that could happen. Yet we still have that reaction, right? So you can have a doctor who’s mediocre that cares about you, and you can be brilliant there. Or you can have a doctor, that’s great, but if they’re not responsive or you don’t feel like they’re on top of things, it does make you think about do they care?

What other things might they be missing? It just, it stirs it up. So you’re just talking about all, all these different ways that we [00:25:00] need to be clear because we end up hurting ourselves and our business. And then when patients don’t come back, we don’t feel good about it, and yet we don’t understand and we’re not taught.

There’s an interesting line of not looking to, the first place doctors often go is to blame the patient. Yeah. All of them just don’t keep up with it or Right. It’s patient’s fault. , The other places, when we do go to ourselves, we often do it with blame and not responsibility. That’s a huge difference.

It’s like I do check-ins on myself regularly to say, okay, , what am I doing? What’s, what am I doing really well? What would I like to do better? How is it impacting all kinds of things, right? My family, my practice, , people that, , I, when I go and speak, our listeners, I look at those things.

And then , the key is not to come from blame, because if you’re gonna be blaming yourself, which is hard ’cause we are taught to blame.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.

Dr Fern Kazlow: We are taught to blame. So to make [00:26:00] that tweak from this is not about blame, this is about, if I can really look, I can really make it better. If I blame, I get stuck.

Yeah. It’s hard. I shut down. Right. And we do that to other people. It’s like, we don’t realize that when we do it to somebody else, we lock them in to a position. And yet if we can really, and it’s true in business, right? And if we have a staff member making it like, okay, to make a mistake and take responsibility, not about blame.

Huge, huge difference for them. When we blame, we lock them in. They have to become defensive. It’s the way humans are wired up.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. When I saw, I was at a, I was at a conference, oh, years ago, and they had someone from one of the insurance companies doing a talk, and , they were saying that nearly something like 90% of all claims, when a patient is suing a practitioner, when they’ve evaluated [00:27:00] what happened and they go through it all, they said that 90% of them could have been avoided if the lines of communication had have been open.

Right from the start, if when they were first concerned about something, contacted their business and said, I’m concerned about this, and straight away the doctors are just shutting it down, don’t have anything to do with them, let’s just avoid it. And the more they avoid it, the more frustrated the patient gets, and then they start taking it to the next level.

And they said they could all be avoided if the lines of communication are open and the patient feels like they’re being listened to,

Dr Fern Kazlow: it’s, it is true. I mean, it’s, it is so true. And instead, you often get, not only the not listening, you get the defensiveness.

Tyson E Franklin: And

Dr Fern Kazlow: that just brings, brings war.

If you don’t take responsibility and make it their fault, or just don’t take the responsibility, even if you don’t, you do get people get angry, they get hurt and they get angry. So I think that’s a really, interesting [00:28:00] number. To say that it’s that percent.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah, that was, it was so high.

Dr Fern Kazlow: And it just shocked. It was also relevant for keeping patients and getting patients. I had somebody that I actually signed up for a program recently and we were going back and forth and we were just like, it was going no place. I wanted to work with them, but I was like, no.

And then they said, I don’t wanna sell you, but I have a feeling that you and I are not communicating. And they said, would you be open to jumping on a call just so we can connect? Yeah. And sort this out. I promise you and I believe them that I’m not trying to sell you. I just want us to make sure that we’re on the same page.

Well, we ended up having this great conversation and I joined their program and I’ve been really pleased and a big fan talking about them because what they did just, and they actually talked about it in a class today.

It was just a few minutes of, instead of saying I never felt I was being [00:29:00] manipulated, this call is to try and get you.

Every communication was really, I just wanna hear you. I just wanna understand you. If this is a fit, great. If it’s not, I wish you the best, but not in that way of I wish you the best, suffer the consequences just in a really heartfelt, , manner. And that’s what I try and do is if this is right, I remember my early days of selling.

My really, really early days and I was really good at it. I was tied for top salesperson. I was twenty, twenty-one,. Right? A national company. And I would never sell that way today. Yeah. I sold something I believed in. But the difference between then and now is then, even though I believed it was good for them, I was trying to sell them.

Now what I’m trying to do is help somebody decide if something is a fit for them. Yeah. Am I the right therapist for you? Am I right, the right consultant or mentor for you? Is this the right approach? And even with [00:30:00] patients that I work with that we’re putting together complicated programs, I help them to decide if the program that they’re looking at, is this right?

Is this the right doctor? Is this the right approach? Is this the right business strategy? So I don’t sell anymore like that. I really now look at how can I help somebody decide. If they’re a fit. And then also on the other side, I’m very like selective. Is this a fit for me? Oh yeah, it’s gonna work

Tyson E Franklin: the other way too.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Yeah. Is it gonna be fun for me? Am I gonna grow, like really is gonna enrich me? Will I be fulfilled or am I gonna find like, yeah, like I’m not the person, you’ve heard me say this for lifestyle. Do I love the beach? I love the beach. Yeah. But if you are an entrepreneur working on a practice just for going to the beach, I’m not your person.

If you have a passion that you love and something that excites you and you wanna grow that and have a life that works for you, I’m all in. So it’s really [00:31:00] important on all sides of it, the fit. And that’s not, and that it’s not done as a manipulation. I don’t do a, well, let me see if I want to take you.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah,

Dr Fern Kazlow: no. It’s like, let’s really see if this is a fit and if it is, great, let’s move forward. If it’s not. That’s great too. It’s like I believe everybody has the people they should and shouldn’t work with. I’m not everybody’s cup of tea.

Tyson E Franklin: Oh, neither am I. But I do the same thing. On my website.

Tysonfranklin.com, On there. I have a section, if you have any questions, you can do a 30 minute complimentary zoom call with me and we’ll just talk about a few things. I probably do half a dozen every month outta that half a dozen probably maybe one I will end up doing some work with.

Half of them will tell me, oh yeah, I really wanna work here, but I know they’re not going to, I just know they won’t follow through. It’s just the way it always is. I’m not out to get anybody. I’m there just to help them. And I remember at one [00:32:00] podiatrist that They wanted to do something.

I said, oh, why don’t you just do this, this, and this. We don’t need to work together, but just do these things. I think that will make a difference. They did it and straight away put an extra 40 grand in their pocket, bang, almost instantly, and they sent me the, this really, really nice bottle of bourbon, which I didn’t ask for, but I wasn’t gonna send it back.

And, but it’s just funny that, I’m the same. I will talk to some people and I know some people just want to get a couple of things ’cause all I wanna do is just make money. And I’m like, yeah, I don’t really wanna work with it that way. I wanna work with someone who wants to have a better practice, wants to look after their patients.

And as a byproduct, yes, you will make money.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Yeah, I mean it’s interesting ’cause I’m, uh, happy to help you make money, but I’m not interested in doing that.

Just like you’re saying in that isolation of, it’s just about the money. Yeah, money’s great. But for me, it, and it truly, if it’s [00:33:00] something valuable, it doesn’t even have to be something I would’ve been interested in or known about. If you are excited about it and it has value, I’m gonna help you be who you need to be to make it happen.

And I’m gonna help you with whatever strategy I can do at the same time. But , that’s that same thing of knowing there are people that love working with lifestyle entrepreneurs just wanna make money, wanna do as little as possible and of story. It just is not my thing. So if you share that, I’m really glad because then I can say, you know what?

I am not the person.

Tyson E Franklin: Hmm. And that’s all part of the communication.

Dr Fern Kazlow: That’s part of the communication. And it, it was interesting because the person whose program I ended up taking, I remember I said to him in one of my messages back and forth was, I don’t wanna come into your program and then be like, tug of war with each other.

You’re trying to get me to do this and I’m trying to do this. It’s , that’s not gonna be fun for anybody. And then we got on the phone, it was like, oh, there’s no tug of war here at all. Mm. It was just something that was difficult to communicate back [00:34:00] and forth by text. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can’t.

And luckily he’s trying not to do so many phone calls like most of us have done. But when it was appropriate, he got on the phone and it, or on the Zoom and it was just like, yeah, this is gonna be fun. And my reaction after a few minutes on the Zoom call was like, so we’re gonna do this, aren’t we?

Yeah. Um, and I was really excited because it was the right fit.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. And , I think, any Podiatry listening to this, you know, when you have those patients that come into the room. You listen to them, they listen to you, the treatment outcome just goes perfectly. And you just go, oh, if I had patients like that all day, I would absolutely love coming to work.

And I think if you have that mindset that you want to really connect with your patients, I think you’ll find work is more enjoyable.

Dr Fern Kazlow: I absolutely, and I think you know what you said too, there’s a piece of it, like getting great results, but I have a [00:35:00] Podiatrist and I had a broken foot and because I got some bad advice when it was first broken and I was Yeah.

Absolute New York, right. Um, she couldn’t really heal it, but she was so awesome about it that I still refer to her and call her my Podiatry.

, Just because she was really honest. She didn’t defend what the others did, but she didn’t slam ’em. She just said, this is what should have happened. And she was right.

And she also, when I wanted to do crazy things, was not afraid to tell me that she thought they were crazy and knew I might do them anyway. And it was the treatment that there was, that made me more willing to bend a little bit. I didn’t have to fight her. She like, yeah, I know you’re probably not gonna listen to me.

I’m like, maybe a little bit. And then on top of that, when there was only one treatment to try and she said, this is really expensive and I don’t think it’s even gonna work. And the fact that she could say that, instead of saying, [00:36:00] I can take it in my pocketbook, let’s give it a shot. She said, I’m willing to do it if you want to, but honestly, I don’t think it’s gonna work and I think it’s gonna hurt and I think it’s gonna cost you money.

She’s got a fan. She’s got a fan. Because I used to

Tyson E Franklin: love saying that to patients, saying to her, Hey, yeah, oh yeah, we can do that without a problem. It won’t work. But if that’s what you want to do. I’m just telling you it’s not gonna make any difference a chance.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Yeah. She said there’s a chance it would work, but she thought the money risk,

outcome wasn’t worth it in her opinion. But at the same time, if I wanted to do it, she was all in to help me. But she wanted to also give me her sense that it probably wasn’t , I, she could do it and I could do it, but she really trusted my own sovereignty, my own agency and was very human with me.

And , we joked a lot. So it’s a really interesting, you can have the great outcome, but [00:37:00] you can also have that great sense of, my doctor listened to me and was real. Yeah. And I believe she was really good, but she couldn’t fix what somebody else messed up.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. And that’s a good part too, just because you don’t always get the result that you want when you’re working with a patient.

If the patients know you care and you’ve been really open and you’ve communicated well with them right from the first visit all the way through, even if the outcome isn’t what you wanted, they still will respect you and they will still refer patients to you.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I, I’m a big fan. I have referred to her.

I would definitely go back to her. She earned my trust and my loyalty, which is another big thing. She earned loyalty because she paid attention, she listened. She wasn’t dissing people, but she was also telling me the truth. , I felt cared about and I felt like she was an expert.

Tyson E Franklin: So, what’s next on our list? We’ve gotta get through here.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Okay. [00:38:00] So I think that what would be really useful is to talk a little bit about, what’s going on with the times we’re living in and how they affect our business and ourselves. Right.

, Professionals, one of the things that’s true is that most of us in our own business have a higher degree of risk tolerance than somebody who, for example, is an employee. Right? We’ve got that. Oh, definitely.

Tyson E Franklin: At,

Dr Fern Kazlow: at the same time, one of the things that’s interesting about that is that we like to choose the risk.

When I think about some of the things that I did, like going cold Turkey and going from being a consultant to having my own full-time practice and then building a center, it was crazy if you looked at it as just from the outside, but from the inside of who I was, it was totally logical and I wasn’t scared, and maybe I was a little crazy.

Um, but it was, it made sense. So it was a risk I chose. Now we’re in times that are [00:39:00] very uncertain, unpredictable, people thrown out around that word, unprecedented.

And it’s really true. You could look at some times that are tough, but these are different. These are different. And so those of us, , and I’m gonna put you in the bucket and you can correct me, but yeah, those of us that on the one hand are really, we handle a good amount of risk, but we also like to have a sense of control.

Tyson E Franklin: Oh, definitely.

Dr Fern Kazlow: And right now, these times are impinging on us in a different way. So it’s really important more than ever to be able to get that sense of being okay no matter what. And this is not, people used to remember when people were saying, I’m gonna create my own economy. So what they meant was like, it doesn’t matter what’s happening on the outside, I can create a business. Because the truth is that there are people that have created businesses, really big businesses in times of huge chaos, turmoil, downturns, right? But how do you [00:40:00] get to be one of them? Or how do you be okay if you’re not one that’s making it big?

Because there really is a lot of uncertainty. There really is a lot of risk that’s going on, and everything that we did before really isn’t working now. So I think the first place is to get to that core of really being clear, how is this impacting me? What stories am I making up? , I was just talking to somebody earlier today who said they don’t watch the news.

Yeah. And a lot of people don’t watch the news. I try and watch, I like to have a, like a knowingness, but then not have it impinged on me. So everybody’s Yeah.

Tyson E Franklin: I’m the same. , i’ll catch you a little bit every now and then, and I know there’s some terrible stuff that goes on, but, oh, it’s sometimes there’s no positivity in news.

Dr Fern Kazlow: It can drag you down sells, right?

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah,

Dr Fern Kazlow: no, it sells. And news today is just about pushing different narratives.

Um, so I don’t [00:41:00] think you want to be head buried in the sand. I think we do, especially as business people. It’s really important to have a sense of what’s happening. Otherwise you’re gonna look and you say, my practice isn’t growing. What’s wrong with me? Well,

Tyson E Franklin: yeah.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Know what’s happening in the world. Yeah.

That people are paying differently, making different treatment choices. Even like the veterinary world where even during the pandemic, they were growing like crazy. Everybody was getting dogs, people bringing ’em to the vet. Now in the last couple of years. Since then, people are getting much more, do I have to come?

What do I really need to do? They’re not going in for prevention the way they did. They’re going in for emergencies. So I think that we do need to understand it, but then we really wanna develop this core that’s, I call it unshakeable. So not that you don’t feel it, not that you don’t have your moments, right?

It’s really important to register what you’re feeling and there’s information there because the information may be saying to you, okay, there’s something [00:42:00] you need to do, something you need to do differently. There’s some protection you need to take. But doing it from that place of proactive listening, not from that place where fear is running you, but where you really have strong anchors.

And that makes the difference in so many ways. It makes us feel different, it makes us healthier, it makes us able to make better decisions for our business. And we’re also, again, communicating more clearly. To a patient the biggest thing that chases patients away besides not listening and all the things we’ve talked about

is when they sense uncertainty or, again, it goes back to, do you just want my money? But a lot of times our fear is transmitted and they don’t even know what it’s about. So when we’re not in connection with what our fear is, and we don’t have our own sense of, okay, let me do this information, but let me be centered, let me be aligned, let me be grounded.

All the things that sound very woo. They’re picking stuff up and [00:43:00] they don’t know what they’re picking up. Like they’re picking up weird feelings, weird stuff unconsciously, because we’re always communicating, right. Unconscious to unconscious. So one, you wanna get more conscious, you wanna get more what I call super conscious, which is really tapping into your intuition.

Yeah. Which makes you an amazing listener and makes your patients really, really happy. Because you get them when you know, you listen. You don’t cut ’em off, but you know where they’re going and you know how to respond. So it’s developing that superconsciousness. But the one of the big cores is not getting driven by our own fear, by our own unconscious forces.

We wanna really separate that out. I’ve developed something I call the power matrix because it maps all of the different factors that either make us successful and free, creating a legacy, having a life that’s joyful, that you know is fulfilled, or those very same factors can impinge and hurt [00:44:00] our health, our prosperity, all the different things that we want if we don’t know how to master them.

So really getting on top of things, it’s don’t push the fear down because that’s really dangerous. Right? That can backfire, but recognize the fear, but don’t get owned by it. And. Really work to cultivate, know what’s going on, but don’t let it run you. But don’t be in that, oh, I have my own economy, because to an extent that’s great and can work for you, but to another extent, it’s tone deaf.

When you start talking to patients or in your ads or anything where you’re not aware of what’s impinging people, if you push somebody to do, let’s say, get another pair of orthotics, right? Yeah. At, I don’t even know what they cost now, I’ve paid a lot of money for orthotics in the past. , If you are not coming from that place of maybe really, like, you don’t wanna make them poor, but you don’t wanna make it non-consequential either, like talking to [00:45:00] people, is this something that you wanna do now?

Give them the space to share, to say yes, to not share, but to make those decisions and not feel uncomfortable in them. So the way to do that is to be comfortable in yourself. Give them that space. But to know people are spending money differently, people are looking for different things in their practices, in their relationships.

Even ads. Ads that used to work and , they would make you cringe now.

Tyson E Franklin: Oh yeah. Some of, some of the old ads. I know, but when you talk about if you are uncertain yourself, you’ve got these fears and you said patients can pick up on that. I think it’s also important for business owners to understand your staff pick up on that as well.

Absolutely. So if you’ve got this uncertainty, you’ve got a bit of fear, what am I doing? Is this the right thing? All these doubts, your staff will pick up on that. Then therefore, when they’re dealing with the patients, your team will pass it on to the patients.

Dr Fern Kazlow: That’s absolutely, [00:46:00] I mean, it’s brilliant that you’re bringing it up and the, there is that line where you wanna be certain, right? You wanna come from strength.

At the same time, you also don’t wanna be coming off like it’s fake strength. Yeah. You don’t want to tell them if they’re scared or they wanna come to you and say I see patient numbers are down, or I see people in a lot of other practices are struggling. If you’re lucky that yours isn’t and I’m worried, I’m worried that I’m about to renew my lease, buy a new house or a bigger house or whatever.

I think you wanna make it comfortable for them to come to you, so then you can help them have that same position of being confident, but being aware of what their fears are and then planning accordingly. I think we’re gonna be fine, but, and these are the things I’m doing to ensure that.

Tyson E Franklin: Remember I said before I get people that’ll reach out to me, half a dozen every month.

A few of those people that actually reach out to me are employees who’ll say, Hey, I just wanna have a talk with [00:47:00] you. This is what’s happening in my workplace. I’m wondering if I should stay or leave, because they’ve got nobody to talk to. Mm-hmm. They may not have a partner in their life they don’t think their friends will understand it. So they’ll actually reach out to me and go, should I stay in this workplace or should I leave? And I go, tell me why you feel that way. And when they lay it all out, I’m like, okay. And then I usually start to go and talk to your employer, share with them what you just shared with me, and this is what they should probably tell you.

If they don’t tell you this, then maybe now is a good time to leave. But you’ll find once they know how you feel, once they explained it. And yeah, once you understand what, what they’re doing, you’ll probably find you’ll wanna stay. And so I never made the decision for. They’ve gotta follow through.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Right. And of course, they always accuse us as therapists, we just ask questions, right? Um,

Tyson E Franklin: no, I’m no therapist. I say, if you need therapy, I’m the last person you’ll call.

Dr Fern Kazlow: What you said was really, [00:48:00] really good. And one of the things that I’ve discovered that I think you’re getting at in a different kind of conversation is they know the answer.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. They

Dr Fern Kazlow: wanna come to somebody to collaborate, to listen to them, to talk it through, because usually. They know inside. Sometimes there’s a question that you ask or the way you put it that makes the light bulb go off. Other times you just give them permission to look at what they already know and then say to them, why don’t you go talk about that?

Because then you’ll get your answer. But they know, and nobody’s giving them that space that you’re really giving them

Tyson E Franklin: to

Dr Fern Kazlow: discover what is inside of them. It reminds me of a

Tyson E Franklin: joke. There was this joke and there was this kid, and he walks up to his dad and says, dad, and he asked the father this question and the father says, I’m not quite sure, son.

Why don’t we ask your mother? And the son said, I really didn’t wanna know that much about it.[00:49:00]

And it always has always cracked me out. ’cause I’m thinking sometimes it’d be like my wife, she’ll say, tell me something that might be, whether it’s happening at work and or other things. And then all of sudden I’ll be telling her and she just sort me. I didn’t really need an answer.

I just needed to get it off my chest. Mm-hmm. I just needed to, I just needed to talk to someone, but I didn’t know who to talk to or how to express it. And I think this is what happens when people reach out to me sometimes.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Mm-hmm. And I think it’s very much a, you know, we hear this, I, I’ve done a lot of family therapy and couples therapy and businesses with couples, right?

Yeah. Husbands and wives and families. And one of the things about how men tend to be wired is they do go in to fix it. Yeah. And not that women, especially if your business owner doesn’t wanna fix it, but really it’s that sense of being heard, being listened to. Everybody wants it, but it is a little different.

And I actually have a friend who’s very linear, super smart, super super smart, photographic memory, but he’s very [00:50:00] linear. And he’ll say to me when I say something, and now it’s I, I’ve been trained that I tell him, he’s like, do you want me to, are you asking me a question or do you just wanna listen?

Want me

Tyson E Franklin: to listen.

Dr Fern Kazlow: And he asks me directly, he said, what do you want? And so I’ll get on the phone and I’ll say, okay, I want your opinion, or I want you to listen, or both, I want you to listen. I’m pretty sure I got it. And then if you have something to say about it, I wanna hear you. But it’s very much in that I love it because he’s so direct about it.

He’s like, I can’t tell. He really can’t tell. He says, I can’t tell if you want my advice, or you just want me to listen to you. And it comes from his history and the way he’s wired up. But it’s a great question and I think it’s a great question for me to, for us to ask ourselves and the people coming to us, not like in that way that you could to a friend, okay, do you want my opinion or do you want, , me to just listen, but to really ask them.

So, let me ask you what you’re asking here. Do you want my take [00:51:00] on this? Or do you know, and you want me to hear you through and think it through with me?

Tyson E Franklin: It’s, it’s good. It’s like I have a mindset coach. I’ve had the same mindset coach for over 11 years now. We talk every two weeks, about an hour and a bit, and I’m always just bouncing ideas and thoughts.

And she challenges me a lot. Sometimes I’ll say certain things and she will actually say to me, is that really true? Is that what’s really happening? And I go, ah, probably not. It’s just some bullshit I’ve made up in my head. And then we’ll talk about it. But sometimes you just need that sounding. But I’ve got a coaching client that’s been with me for five years. And she says, now it’s not that every time we get together I go, oh, here’s my wisdom.

This is something you’re gonna change in your practice. You’re gonna make this big difference. But she will have ideas and we’re working through ’em and we’re talking through them. And [00:52:00] most of the time she will ask the question, we’ll talk through it, and she’ll come up with her own answer at the end.

But if she didn’t have me to talk to, she’d just be sitting there in her own head trying to figure things out. And sometimes we’ll finish a call and she’ll go, that’s exactly what I needed today.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Yeah. And that’s really the gift. Like people have gone crazy with accountability partners and all kinds of stuff.

Yeah. I always say, if you need an accountability person, go get a job. If you’re an entrepreneur, if you have your own business. Your your own accountability. But what we do need is collaboration partners. Yeah. We need people that will listen, that will hear, that will ask questions that will just be there on the journey with us.

And that’s very, very different. And that’s really when it looks like accountability is working. It’s usually collaboration that’s working is that we have somebody beside us, excited with us, challenging us, but not saying, did you do your homework?

Tyson E Franklin: Oh yeah. Um, it’s

Dr Fern Kazlow: somebody saying like, okay, we’re in this and I have a circle like that that I go [00:53:00] to and we go to each other and that fires me up.

It’s what helps me stay on track. Not because it’s accountability, but because it’s really a deep collaborative partnership. Yeah.

Tyson E Franklin: I think the collaboration, it evolves over a period of time. ’cause when I first start working with people, a lot of the times there are things you must do. There is homework you need to do. You need to put things in place, get things sorted out, get things working. But once your clinic is up and running and everything is going great, that’s when I think the conversations move upwards. And you’re talking about things differently. You, you’re working through ideas, you’re working through concepts, but it’s always good having that, that sounding board.

Because sometimes, like I even say that you can talk to your partner, but sometimes it’s, it’s you’re not getting the answers that you need or the conversation goes off track and you end up talking about something completely [00:54:00] different.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Whereas, well, because your partner has an agenda, right? Yes. Your partner has an agenda.

Hopefully the people listening to your business, their agenda is to help you. And your partner wants to do that, but they’ve got other needs that have to be met. And also, the other thing is that most of us don’t have entrepreneurial partners. So when I talk to my husband’s, that’s true. He’s an acupuncturist.

His brain does not work. Like my therapist, entrepreneur brain works.

Tyson E Franklin: Yep.

Dr Fern Kazlow: He just doesn’t. So his help to me is well-meaning, but he just doesn’t, he just doesn’t get that stuff. So, , if you’ve got that partnership and we worked together, it was great. We worked, we had a center, a holistic center together.

We saw patients. Almost everybody that came to our center had joint evaluation source together. It was a great collaboration, but I didn’t talk to him about growing the business

Tyson E Franklin: because,

Dr Fern Kazlow: He would sit and he is the very spirit, you know, he’d meditate and he’d do all his healing work and say, my practice is growing.

And I’d say, yeah, you [00:55:00] meditate. I go out and speak. Your practice grows. So, it’s like, it’s a different frame. Entrepreneurs, business owners it’s a different way of being. It’s a different beast. We are a different beast.

Tyson E Franklin: And so I, I think you hit the nail on the head though, I have a very much an entrepreneurial mind and my, my wife would openly admit that she does not have an entrepreneurial mind, that side of things.

She always said marketing, not interested in it, doing different things, not interested in it. But if we were collaborating and talking about things doesn’t mean she doesn’t have some fantastic ideas that you can’t apply and use, but it’s not something she’s sitting there thinking about on a regular basis.

Dr Fern Kazlow: Right. So that, yeah. And different perspective can really open things or help us in certain ways. When I go to negotiate something, I leave my husband home.

Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. If I said to Christine. Hey, I’m thinking of some new ideas and what I could do with my coaching business or my speaking, [00:56:00] and we sat down.

She might go, oh, okay, well, have you thought about this, this, and this? And I go, great ideas. But she would not be sitting outside at the moment thinking, Hmm, wonder how I could make Tyson’s podcast speaking business or coaching business better? Unless I asked it, it wouldn’t be happening. But if it was me, because I have an entrepreneurial mind, I’ll have a friend and I’ll look at their business and I can’t help but when I’m having a beer with them and go, Hey, I love what you’re doing here.

Have you thought about I’m, I’m more, I’m already talking about things. And, and that’s,

Dr Fern Kazlow: and they appreciate that. I can’t not, I told about I can’t, not whether it’s my husband’s practice, my clients, I think about them when I’m not in the room. People say, oh, you, you don’t wanna take it with, yeah, I do. Take it with me.

I care. And my brain is on fire. So if somebody’s doing something exciting, am I gonna think about them after hours? Of course I am, because it’s just. It’s just on my mind. So, um, yeah, so if

Tyson E Franklin: people are listening to this and you, you’ve got one of those crazy minds that are always looking at [00:57:00] other things, looking at other ideas, how can you change things?

How can you make things better? You are in our club, and if you’re not that way, you have your own special skills that you probably have some great ideas that you just need someone to come and to fire those ideas out of you. Mm.