In Part One of my conversation with Dr Fern Kazlow, we explored how poor communication undermines trust and connection in healthcare and business. In this second half, we delve deeper into the psychology of change, resistance, and how our beliefs shape our approach to leading, working, and growing.
Understanding the Resistance Paradox
Dr K introduced a powerful concept she calls The Resistance Paradox™. As high achievers, the very traits that drive our success—discipline, control, and force of will can eventually become the same forces that hold us back. What once helped us grow our practice or business starts to choke our progress when we cling too tightly to old patterns and beliefs.
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Dr K reminded me that our brains are wired for survival, not evolution. We repeat what worked before, even when it no longer serves us. That’s why resistance isn’t a flaw; it’s information. If we can pause and ask what our resistance is trying to tell us, we can turn it into a gateway for transformation.
Leadership and Team Growth
We discussed how this shows up in our teams. The people who helped you build your clinic may not be the ones who can take it to the next level—unless they’re willing to change with you. Before replacing team members, Dr. K encourages leaders to look at their own role in the dynamic. Are we encouraging risk-taking and growth, or unintentionally rewarding safety and compliance?
Breaking Trances and Old Beliefs
We also talked about the “trances” that keep professionals stuck, deep-rooted beliefs and stories we don’t even realise we’re living by. Dr K shared fascinating research showing that trauma and belief patterns can be passed down through generations. Changing these stories requires awareness, curiosity, and compassion, not judgment.
As she put it, “Turn up the discernment, dial down the judgment.” That line stuck with me.
Solutions and Next Steps
Dr K believes entrepreneurship and healthcare are personal development journeys in disguise. To move forward, we must learn to pay attention to our patterns without beating ourselves up. Ask yourself: What am I trying to achieve in a way that’s not working? When we find the positive intent behind our habits, we can shift them without guilt or shame.
Dr K summed it up perfectly: “Slay your dragons—don’t slay yourself.”
Final Thoughts
If you haven’t listened to Part One yet, go back and start there—it lays the foundation for everything we explore here. Both episodes are packed with insights that will help you build trust, communicate better, and run your business with more clarity and calm.
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To connect with Dr Fern Kazlow, you can visit her website at https://drkazlow.com/ or connect with her on Facebook.
If you’re looking for a speaker for an upcoming event or a facilitator to run a pre-conference workshop, please visit my Speaker Page to see the range of topics I cover.
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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT (Unedited)
Tyson E Franklin: [00:00:00] you’ve got one of those crazy minds that are always looking at other things, looking at other ideas, how can you change things?
How can you make things better? You are in our club, and if you’re not that way, you have your own special skills that you probably have some great ideas that you just need someone to come and to fire those ideas out of you. Mm.
Dr Fern Kazlow: Mm-hmm. But it is, I say it all the time. I mean, there really is, and that’s why I’ve studied, and really talk about having redefined a lot of high achiever psychology because you got all these non-high achievers trying to decide what high achiever psychology is.
Um, it doesn’t work so well, but there is a distinct entrepreneurial psychology. Does it overlap with the rest of the world? Sometimes. But there are things that are really different that impact us. One of the things that really is, I think maybe what we leave on is something I call the resistance paradox.
And it really is very relevant in this time. Relevant in any time, but very much now because [00:01:00] the things that worked before for our businesses, culturally within ourselves, they’re not working the way they did before and we’re wired. It’s, it is an interesting phenomenon. What gets us, especially as successful business people, health professionals, what got us to a certain point.
Which often had a lot of force to it, right? Yeah. Fault force, willpower, things like that, reaches a point where it actually starts to strangle us. It can, our business can get fueled or it can stop. Our health can get compromised. Our sense of self, all of the things can get compromised and it’s really for this good reason.
The reason is we’re trying to stay alive and the way we’re wired is that we’re wired for survival. So it worked before we tend to do it. Even though we can be really adaptive, like I know from our conversations, and I’m sure it’s true for our audience, we really are like, we can fire up ideas, but when it comes to our [00:02:00] ways of approaching them, we’ve got a certain wiring, we’ve been affected by certain traumas.
We’re even in what I call certain trances, which are like, we are locked into ways that we see the world. And so it’s really important that we understand that and learn how to work with it. I look at a core triangle of traumas that we’ve had, which we then create our kind of life story around disconnection that happens because of the trauma and then the way we resist.
Tyson E Franklin: The
Dr Fern Kazlow: changes that we wanna make. We wanna make the changes, right? One of the things that I say to clients is like, okay, let me ask you a question. Are you resisting because you really do not wanna change? Or are you resisting or saying all this stuff or coming up with all this stuff because you want me to help you move through it?
If you wanna hold onto it, that’s cool. We may not have any more work to do here, but it’s yours. You’ve got it. We’re wired for resistance. If you want me to help you learn how to move through it and move through it, [00:03:00] I’m game
Tyson E Franklin: well. But that applied to like most areas in life, if somebody is not happy with their fitness, their weight, their overall health, there can be the trauma disconnection, but the resistance part when they know what they’re supposed to be doing, but then they resist actually doing it, they fall back into their old habits.
Dr Fern Kazlow: Yeah, one of the things that I want people to do is. To really like the, to me, there’s gold in the resistance when you can start to really appreciate, okay, why am I doing that? We don’t do things, people get all on the self-sabotage thing, right? I’m like self-sabotaging, and it became really cool to talk about all the ways we self-sabotage.
That’s not really what it’s about. What it’s really about is we are trying to hold onto what’s worked. We’re trying to survive, and high achievers are better at it than anyone. We’re so good at it. We can manipulate our coaches, our therapists, [00:04:00] our friends, family, ourselves. We’re really good at making up reasons for why we have to do things or not do things.
Hurt us. We’re not doing it because we’re a-holes, we’re doing it because we’re wired up and we don’t know how to break the loops. So what we wanna do is learn how to take the goal, take the information, find the portal to meet those gateways in our resistance, and use those to make the very changes in transformation we want.
So it’s not easy. Like I, if I could tell you how many physicians, therapists, coaches, fire clients and patients, because they’re not, they’re resistant. Instead of, somebody said to me once, Dr. K, you really like people who are resistant. And I’m like, I like people who are resistant in a certain way.
Yeah. The ones who really don’t wanna move, that’s not my, there are people that’ll help you get ready to be ready. That’s not my client. My client are the people, my patients, my clients. I always separate my psychotherapy [00:05:00] practice and my mentoring.
They’re the people who wanna move through it and they want help.
To move through it. So they’re not that they’re not resistant, but they’re curious about the resistance they’re willing to change if you can help them do it, if you can respect the fear and the fact that they may have built a lot wealth, success, reputation, and it worked for them. It worked. And now you’re saying, well, you have to do it differently.
Like, excuse me, like how do I trust that I’ve got this here? And so now what always happens, I’ve seen it for literally decades, a hundred thousand plus hours with high achievers, is you reach a point where what got you there starts to fracture your sense of self and it drains your sovereignty and it just messes up everything your business included.
Um, you reach that point. But in today’s. Environment, it’s even more so. Mm. So the very things that worked before, [00:06:00] it’s not just the internal factors that are different now, the culture is different. Business is different people’s relating to each other, or not relating to each other. Right? Like seeing people mostly in Zoom.
I remember building my business originally. It was all in person.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Dr Fern Kazlow: I was out meeting people. I, it was a whole different thing. Right. So it really is taking that resistance and acknowledging that you’re really good at it. I know you’re really good at it. I call myself the resistor in chief. I am excellent at it.
I do have some people that kind of are vying for my title. Um, but I’ve worked with it. So now when I feel it coming up and, I will confess, my husband sometimes uses it against me. Um, kind of, you know, like, are you resist? It’s like, yeah, actually I am. Let me look at why, because sometimes the resistance is actually protecting us.
He wanted me to do something for my health the other day and I just kept like, [00:07:00] no, no. I didn’t know why. I know he thought I was just being like, why won’t you do that?
Tyson E Franklin: And then
Dr Fern Kazlow: finally said, , I have a feeling that’s not right for you. And when I started to really tune in, it was like it really wasn’t right.
But my gut was really saying no. So I don’t want people to just say plow through resistance. Ultimately we have to do take the information, take the gifts, take the opportunities, take the gateways, and don’t just decide, plow through.
That’s what professionals were really good at that. Most of us built like that, to be really honest. Most of us built plowing through a lot of things, and now we’re really being asked to succeed in a different way .
Tyson E Franklin: A lot of what you’re saying though, reminds me of people that they build a business to a certain point and, a lot of the times, the team that are around you, that you have employed with you, the team you have now that got you from where you were to where you are, [00:08:00] will not be the same team that will get you from where you are to where you’re gonna go.
But they can be if those team members are also prepared to change with you. And I’ve noticed a lot of entrepreneurial pod, a common thing that they’ll say to me is, oh, I’m trying to get my reception team to do this. But they keep resisting, they keep wanting to do it the old way. I’ve gone. Well, if they’re not prepared to change, you’re better to let them go and bring in a new person that doesn’t know any different.
They’ll just make that change that you need to make. I can understand how people do it themselves, where they know they need to change in certain areas, but they won’t do it and their team members can basically be following that same thing.
Dr Fern Kazlow: That’s such an important thing.
And one of the things that I wanna add to what you’re saying, ’cause it’s so important, is our team can really be a team for one season, but not the next. Yeah. But sometimes we’re doing things [00:09:00] that don’t enable them to move and grow and take the risk and not be resistant. So I think before we gave up on them, it’s not just saying, will you change?
Will you grow? But really looking at what is the dynamic? Are we encouraging mistakes? Are we encouraging their growth in a real way? Not just like, you need to grow so we can grow, so we can do the next thing.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Dr Fern Kazlow: But are you really listening to what is it that they’re afraid of? What is it that they’re holding onto?
And once apart, fostering a team that’s willing to take risk and not because truth is that inadvertently we can often make it more difficult for them to blossom than to stay safe
Tyson E Franklin: else. Yeah. I equate it to, a sports team, and there’ll be a coach that will come in and they’ll have a certain amount of players and they may make it to a certain level in the competition.
If there’s 20 teams, they might come sixth and the next year they might come sixth [00:10:00] again. But the. Coach knows we need to let some players go or we need to bring in some new players because with the current team we have and the current skillset and the current thinking, we are never going to win the championship.
So they have to make these little changes, if they keep the same side and they never make any changes, the team just Platos and stagnates and over a period of time, that team actually gets, it’s not that they get worse, it’s just the other teams have made the changes and they keep improving.
So coaches and clubs know they’ve gotta let team members go. They’ve gotta bring in a new skillset if they want to actually succeed.
Dr Fern Kazlow: And, and I think
Tyson E Franklin: businesses have to do exactly the same thing,
Dr Fern Kazlow: both in terms of team and then also in terms of consultants and coaches. , To get psychological here for a second, one of the things that I’ve seen is that patients, clients, they’ve worked with somebody that could get them to a certain point.
But [00:11:00] then they need somebody to get them to another point. And also relationships. Sometimes you can have a relationship for years and years and it keeps growing. I have patients I’ve worked with for literally decades that, whenever something comes up new or a growth phase or something, they come back.
But sometimes there’s a pattern that has gotten stuck with an employer and an employee, a coach and a client.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah, you
Dr Fern Kazlow: really do need something different. So it’s not a downside if you and your employee, your staff needs something different. Sometimes that relationship has just gotten to a place that, to break the pattern, you’ve gotta do something different.
It’s kinda like when kids go away to college and they start to spread their wings and then they come home and they’re acting like , the teenagers, they acted like before they left, and you are acting like the parent of a younger child and that whole thing.
Tyson E Franklin: So the dynamics change.
Dr Fern Kazlow: The dynamics change.
So when you have. A staff that’s had one [00:12:00] patterning. Not everybody can make that shift to a new relationship. And you may not be able to make it with everybody.
Tyson E Franklin: Mm. And that’s why even teams, we were talking about the move players around, but that’s why some clubs will move the coach on.
’cause they need a different coach to get the best. They’ve got a good team, but it’s the coach that needs to move on or club sometimes will get rid of the CEO of the club because they need a better person leading the club. So there’s all these different levels. And that’s why I, I’ll say to some clients too, that if you ever get an employee that comes and works with you and then they constantly say at our old place, we used to do it this way.
Okay, that is a site that you need to get that out as, as soon as you can. Because if it was that good at the other place, go back to the other place. This is how we do it here, what you used to do, unless it’s gonna make things better. Then we’ll do it. But if it’s just gonna make things easier for you, then no, that’s not what we’re going to do.[00:13:00]
Dr Fern Kazlow: It’s pretty amazing how, we started talking about businesses personal, but we bring our personal stuff to every business, whether we’re , staff, whether we’re the doctor, whether we’re the patient or even the advertising coordinator. We all bring our stuff to the table and knowing that, accepting it and enjoying it instead of making it like, damn, like this person is being human.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Dr Fern Kazlow: They’re bringing their stuff to be able to develop that place of , okay, let me just take a look. Let me be present. Not in judgment, discernment. So I never say, when I say, don’t judge, don’t be discerning. Be really discerning and then see where things can move. The more we can do that, the more we can break loops, we can break old patterns.
We can break all the things that aren’t working and we can start to really create. The life we want, the business, we want the sense of self that we want.
Tyson E Franklin: Okay. So where to from here, we’ve gone through all this [00:14:00] and someone’s listened to this far mm-hmm. Where to, where to next for them.
Dr Fern Kazlow: Okay. So I think, we’ve outlined the issues and we’ve talked some about the solutions, but I think the important thing is everybody stresses the pain points, right?
Yeah. Um, I would like to look at the solution points. So I think that is really what we need to do, where we need to go. Um, and I think those break down to a couple of things. One is really understanding the issues that we’ve talked about. So understanding the importance of connection, understanding the issues personally, they’re coming up because they’re gonna come up, right?
Mm-hmm. That’s just what happens. And, people say entrepreneurship is a personal development journey. It really is. We don’t go into it like that, but it definitely is the thing that’s gonna grow us if we let it. And if we want our businesses to grow, we really have to. grow. , What about these times, which we talked about to me, the times are [00:15:00] turning the dialogue.
It’s not that, oh my goodness, what you needed to do before is totally different because you always needed to be adaptive. You always needed to be listening. You always needed to deal with your stuff. But now the dial has been turned up so that all of these things are more important than they ever were.
So I think that’s really key. And then when we talk about resistance, starting to cultivate a different relationship with that is really important. Starting to look at that, whether it’s in, we were talking about our staff.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Dr Fern Kazlow: It’s really easy to be frustrated with resistance in our staff, with resistance in our patients.
Hmm. With resistance in ourselves. Right. And. , I told you one of my, someone that was, , speaking to me about some of their issues one day and they said, Dr. K, you really, like working with resistance. , What I love about it is that if we will change our perspective on [00:16:00] resistance, and again, as I said before, it’s not the ones kicking their heels in and saying, , no, I don’t wanna change.
And that whatever you do, they have a reason to thwart you.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah, right?
Dr Fern Kazlow: Yeah. But the ones, and you can tell the difference in your gut. You just can tell it. The ones who really grappling, they really want to grow and they don’t know how to get out of their own way. So when you can start to really appreciate the resistance, wherever you see it.
So when I see it in a client, in a patient, I play with them about it. I play with it. I don’t hit it in the front door for most people. It’s funny because we talked a little bit about AI and you talked about like mirroring and one of the things AI likes to tell me about myself is that, I’m a truth mirror.
, And sometimes they’re not saying it in the most gentle way.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Dr Fern Kazlow: Truth is that I am a truth mirror, but I’m a truth mirror. That really works to say things in a way people can hear them. [00:17:00] So hitting people straight on, some people can take that in. Some people that think they can take it in really can’t.
So even with ourselves, it’s like what is the doorway? I’m always looking for the doorway, whether it’s a patient, a client, a colleague, whatever it is, it’s where is the doorway. And with myself. One, a few. It was a couple months ago. I was trying to believe something I didn’t believe.
Okay. It was really important and I didn’t believe it, but I really needed to believe it. Okay. It was really important for me that I could change that belief so that I could believe what I didn’t believe and so I did.
Tyson E Franklin: That sounds funny. I need to believe something I don’t believe in. Yeah,
Dr Fern Kazlow: I how like I knew it was really important to change this belief and I also could feel not only my resistance to changing it, which I did, but I could also feel like I don’t believe it.
And so I [00:18:00] really worked with myself to find the doorway in where is the place that I could work with not believing it. It wasn’t about pretending I believed it. Because that would work about as well as you could imagine. It would work, right? Yeah. That wouldn’t work. But it really was about, I was very committed to figuring this out because it was a huge issue.
And so I played with it. How, what door? Is there a side door? Is there a back door? Is there a track door? Like how can I get in? What is the place? Where is the crack? Where’s the little crack in the belief that I could say if this was true, then maybe that belief. It’s not exactly true. I separate trance and belief and it was really a trance.
So what’s the difference? Belief is like something you believe, right? We all know that. Yeah. Yeah, I believe that. That’s what I think, that’s what I feel. But a trance is when you’re locked in and it’s the point where you don’t [00:19:00] see anything but through the filter that you’re attracting and you become very much on stage when they hypnotize you and you c cluck like a chicken until they break the trance
Tyson E Franklin: like that.
I’ve like, I’ve seen people do that. I’ve seen people do that. I, I don’t know if, I’ve never been a chicken myself,
Dr Fern Kazlow: so most of us have not been on stage clucking like a chicken. Yeah, I haven’t, but I’ve had my own version of clucking, like a chicken where I was just couldn’t see past whatever it was that I was so locked into.
Beliefs gives you a little bit more leeway, but this was really like this trance I was locked in. So is this almost
Tyson E Franklin: like confirmation bias where you already have a certain belief, so then you will, you look for evidence to convince yourself that what you already believe in is true and you ignore all the other evidence?
That is
Dr Fern Kazlow: absolutely contradictory and it’s deeper. But yes. I mean, I always say first you make it up. Actually the first part of this came from a friend of [00:20:00] mine’s, 90-year-old mother. They both passed, but then I had my addition. So Esther Esposito, she used to say, first you make it up, then you believe it.
Yeah. And I always used to add or still add, and then you create the world to prove that it’s true.
Tyson E Franklin: Mm. It’s deep and,
Dr Fern Kazlow: and it’s really what we do. And there’s a theory that, I don’t know if you ever read the book or if I ever asked you, did you ever read the book when prophecy fails?
Tyson E Franklin: I don’t think so.
Dr Fern Kazlow: It’s fascinating book. Back in the day, they used to have psychology students that would go out and they called them participant observers. So they used to go out to do their research. Well, Leon Festinger, who wrote this book, he had a group of psychology graduate students, I think they were graduate students, and he sent them out.
He sent them out to explore this cult that believed the world was going to end. And when you talk about cognitive bias or cognitive dissonance, what happened was every time [00:21:00] their prediction, the prophecy failed.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Dr Fern Kazlow: Some people dropped off and other people doubled down. Oh, they quit their jobs. They gave away their things, they ended their relationships.
They just couldn’t get past it. And so what you’re saying is really true, and I wanna add that it’s way deeper than thought. It’s locked in our bodies. It’s locked in our DNA sometimes it has nothing to do with us, but it’s something that’s been passed and now they prove it that trauma can be passed.
Transgenerationally, it used to be something as clinicians that we knew as a therapist. We saw it, we had no doubt about it, but we couldn’t prove it. Yeah. Now they actually prove that it’s either seven or nine generations going forward, going back that can be influenced and that we come in with trauma that happened to relatives of ours.
So when you say cognitive dissonance or cognitive bias, absolutely, but it’s so much deeper. And when we’re in those trances, it really is. [00:22:00] It’s about, people say to me, is it about identity? Yes, it’s about identity, but it’s still deeper. It’s that place where it’s so in your, the deepest places of your being and it’s multidimensional.
It’s in your mind, it’s in your body, it’s in your DNA. It’s all of those places. Right. So. This is really very key. So how do you change your resistance? How do you change a belief? How do you break through a trance that is in every cell, every core of your being? To the point where when a prophecy sale fails, you quit your job, you gave away your clothes.
Yeah. You left your family. Right? We could look at it and say, oh my goodness, that’s crazy. And yet, to me it was the most powerful demonstration of what happens when you’re caught in those kind of trances. So we start to work by, we look for the cracks, we look for the places that we can make the difference, and this changes everything.
Yes, I did change the belief.
Tyson E Franklin: [00:23:00] Yeah.
Dr Fern Kazlow: It was not like I didn’t do it in 15 minutes.
Tyson E Franklin: But even with, well you, because you’re talking at a personal level at the moment, but I think as a profession sometimes that those same. Beliefs are entrenched into a profession that they believe that they’re positioned in a certain, social scale of professions.
They believe that Podiatry, this is where it is compared to other professions. And as a collective group, it’s really hard to get people to break that belief and say, no, that’s not where you should be putting us. We should be up here with, with everybody else, but to try and get a whole profession to do that.
So sometimes there’s a collective belief, so whole. Yeah.
Dr Fern Kazlow: Okay. So here’s the cool thing, Tyson. This is really, it’s a little to the side of it, but it applies to everything man named Greg Braden, philosopher, mathematician.
Braden. B-R-A-D-E-N.
He’s been around a long time and he studied, people that were, they called it [00:24:00] praying, but it was really meditating in a certain way. Decades ago. And what they found, and he’s actually gone further with it, was that when the square root of 1% of a population, so we could say the field of Podiatry, the square root of 1%, not a huge number, not having to get everybody.
When that percent changes their perspective, their attachment, their consciousness about something, their belief about something, right? It can change everything. And so it was in much harder things like they found that when they were meditating, praying squared of 1% wars change course, climactic events, rapes and assaults in the community went down.
So when we say, yeah, how do we change the Podiatry and their mindset, or how do we change medical doc like, physicians that are cardiologists or surgeons or whatever, how do we do that? You don’t need [00:25:00] to change, everybody. Change.
Tyson E Franklin: You just need to change a small percentage.
Dr Fern Kazlow: Small percentage. And if those people are really clear and committed and strong, much like to me that the pendulums, when you get the strong one that moves the next one, that moves the next one.
Yeah. The clock and following the leader, that always sticks in my mind. So it feels overwhelming when you say, how do I change the whole profession? Right? We believe this about ourselves and our profession, which then gets put out into the universe, right? And then comes back in our patience and everything.
No, you don’t have to. All you need to do is like you’re doing with the podcast, is you reach a core and they have the power
Tyson E Franklin: to
Dr Fern Kazlow: make that difference, which to me has been a lot. I’ve been teaching this literally for decades, and it’s been life changing for me when I think I have to change everybody.
You can’t, but when you think screwed 1%. It’s not a huge number. Yeah,
Tyson E Franklin: it’s true. Because even when you, we thinking [00:26:00] about the podcast, I know there’s certain people that they listen to every single episode when it comes out, they listen to it. They are huge fans of the podcast. There’s other people.
Yeah, they listen to it occasionally if an episode grabs their attention, they’ll listen to it. But there’s other people who, they refuse to listen to this podcast because they reckon it’s the biggest load of rubbish going around. And they would never listen. And, and as they’ve said to me, I would never come on your podcast, even if you ask me.
And they don’t have to worry about that because I wouldn’t ask them. But they’re not the ones who are ever gonna make the change. It’s the ones who are listening to the podcast who pick up a few things, make that little change and over a period of time will change your profession.
Dr Fern Kazlow: You’ve just raised something really important.
Like what do we want people to take from this podcast?
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Dr Fern Kazlow: That they can do right away that will make the difference. So I wanna go there in a [00:27:00] minute, but let’s say with this idea of solutions, right? All of these issues, and we’re talking about changing a belief and breaking trances, a couple of things to keep in mind.
One, you really want to set up the conditions for you to start to be more of who you are, more sovereign. Have your agency look at the issues that are impinging on you and decide which ones. You can’t change everything all at once. But the interesting thing is that when you change some, it’s like the domino effect.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Dr Fern Kazlow: When you start to do a little bit, then all of a sudden the others become way easier, right? We know that from even like weight loss stuff, it’s like cut out sugar. It’s easier to cut out alcohol. It just cycles like that. So once you can start to look at what is it that’s really, , what is it that’s making me, really give away my own sense of self, my sovereignty?
What is it that I think about myself or feel about myself that is [00:28:00] holding me back? And sometimes it’s really interesting things, like one of the things, , people talk about the, fear of failure. I’ve seen so many people that have a fear of success and they get to a point that looks successful.
It is successful, but they won’t break that ceiling. And when you explore it, why not? Well, they have ideas not about business, but their health won’t sustain it if they get too big a business or their relationship or it’s gonna make their brother feel bad.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah, I can relate to that. When I talk about, say, doing speaking gigs or running events.
And I’m so used to my life where I go to the gym every morning at six o’clock, do that six days a week. I, I keep fairly active, but when I travel, I tend to eat the wrong foods, drink a little bit too much, stay out too late, and, and I don’t exercise. So when I’m away [00:29:00] for about a week and I get home, I’m like, oh, I’m so glad that I’m home.
And you do, you have this fear that, well, if I did more events or more speaking gigs, is that gonna affect my health? Because I do all the wrong things a lot when I’m outside of my normal, uh, routine. And it is, it’s, it’s almost like a, uh, it’s like a little fear that you carry around with you,
Dr Fern Kazlow: especially the older
Tyson E Franklin: you get.
Dr Fern Kazlow: And people kind of say, oh, you’re scared of, of failing. No, you’re not scared of failing. Sometimes more. Yeah. But often you’re scared of something totally different. And until you address that, you’re going to keep recreating the thing that will keep you safe. And so when you start to look at that and say, you know what, I’m not somebody out to hurt myself.
I always tell people when they’re doing something that looks dysfunctional, ask this question, what am I trying to accomplish that’s positive in a way that’s not working? And it changes everything. So lemme just say that again. [00:30:00] Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say, repeat that please. Yes, sorry. Like why repeat that?
Because it’s counterintuitive. Look at the positive thing that you’re trying to accomplish. Even if you look at things like that, we would say, oh no. Like somebody screaming at their kids, for example. Right? Why are they doing that? Why are they doing that? They’re doing that because they don’t know another way.
To one handle their own frustration. Yeah. So they’re trying to feel better and they’re also trying to help their kid behave and they don’t know another way. They’re not trying to be a shitty parent.
They’re not trying to be a a bad parent. They’re not trying to be bad to themself.
They’re trying to do a positive thing in the best way that they just don’t know how to do it any other way. So if you look at it and you say, okay, so I’m trying to not have this frustration. What would be a better way to really do that? Or is this really getting the result that I want? Or is the cost, maybe my kid’s listening, but maybe they’re starting to really not be so close to me anymore.
[00:31:00] Maybe I can feel that this is not the best. When you can start to do that without the judgment, but with the discernment. Turn up the discernment. Dial down the judgment. Dial. Dial. Yeah. And you’re in a whole different, so I always tell people, don’t go to therapy order the mentoring if they don’t have an issue.
Right? They don’t just generally come in and say, oh yeah, I’m here. Whatever. Yeah. , Wouldn’t mind
Tyson E Franklin: a bit of therapy today. What do you got? Right?
Dr Fern Kazlow: So they generally either want something that’s bugging them to change or they’re aspirational and they haven’t been able to reach it themselves. Right.
And so when you could change that frame from. I just sabotage myself. I just eat what I’m not supposed to eat. Yeah. I just don’t take care of myself. I just whatever it is that it is. And we all have those things, right? We have them as professionals, as business owners, as business leaders at every part of our life.
What is it? The thing that I’m trying to do, even when you look at things in like the Podiatry profession and you say, oh my goodness, [00:32:00] what are they thinking? If you look and say, what are they trying to do that’s positive in a screwy way?
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Dr Fern Kazlow: It will change your ability to relate to them. It will free them up to be different if they can be, and it changes everything.
So that’s a question I tell people. Always look at that question. What is it that I’m trying to do in a dysfunctional way, but my goal, what’s the goal? People don’t usually think about it that way. Like when they’re yelling at their kids or when they’re doing something and they’re pushing their staff.
I’m trying to get like people to be better with patients. Good goal. Are you doing it in a way that’s gonna work for who you are and who your particular staff is, and even who your clients. So instead of being like, oh my, this staff member is just, they don’t know how to talk to people.
Look at what are they trying to accomplish. Maybe they’re trying to make room for you or not have you stressed, or they’re trying to do something, [00:33:00] they’re trying to look good. Whatever it is, I look for what it is they’re trying to do that then I can help them do in a better way. And that’s so wouldn’t it be the fear of success?
Tyson E Franklin: Wouldn’t it be even the, like the entrepreneurial Podiatry or the business owner who is working 50, 60, 70 hours a. They’re not eating properly and they’re not sleeping and they’re not exercising. They have to ask themselves, what am I trying to achieve?
Why am I doing this? And when they can remember why they’re doing it, then how do they make those changes so that they don’t do the wrong thing to themselves or harm themselves. That’s
Dr Fern Kazlow: That’s a great question. And it’s embedded in the part where, like you saying, they’re not taking care of themselves and they’re doing all these kind of things.
Also, one of the things that you look at is that there has been a culture, it’s changing now to an extent, but there’s been a culture that has said you get validated for how much you don’t sleep, [00:34:00] how hard you work. Yeah. How much you don’t pay attention to food. So when you look at those things and examine one, what am I really trying to do?
Two, we can understand, right? We can understand and say, okay. I get it. I’m trying to build my practice and right now I need to do all these things, right? We’re really good at at convincing ourselves, but then we have to go and say, what’s stopping me? What’s stopping me? So maybe it’s anxiety, right?
Entrepreneurs, health professionals, business owners, we have, there’s a lot of anxiety. So maybe it’s anxiety. And when I’m saying I’m just eating a quick thing, I’m eating something that actually is connected to a comfort food that I didn’t think about, but actually helps me not be so anxious. Or I’ve afraid to not be busy because part of me learned, watching my parent that busyness pays off.
I never saw a model for, I hear people saying, take care of yourself. Self-care is so [00:35:00] important, but I’ve never seen it true, to be honest. Let’s look at entrepreneurs. How many people really see in this circle on the way up? That’s what worked. And now you’re telling me to do something. My father didn’t do it.
My grandfather didn’t do it, my grandmother didn’t do it like that. And you’re saying trust the whatever you’d say now, right? Yeah. So it’s really looking to me at the different levels. It’s looking at what is the story and the strain in your gut. ’cause your gut’s got a story, right? Not just your mind, it’s your mind and your gut.
It’s looking at your feelings, not judging them, but what is screaming to give me the message. Once you hear the message, it’s much easier to change behavior. What is my body asking for if I’m anxious? What is the way to deal with the anxiety? One of the things, entrepreneurs don’t go to bed, they’re anxious.
There’s a lot of stuff on their mind. Yeah, it’s true. What can I do? Right? What can I do? People say journal. Well, can I do that? Does that work for me? Do I need [00:36:00] to talk it out? Do I need to like make a plan? What is it that I need to do for me? What works for me? What are practices? Some people meditate, some people do like exercise, not, not what somebody else says you should do.
That’s one of the ways we get in trouble. Like the 5:00 AM club thing, right? Robin Scharmer is the 5:00 AM club and everybody thinks that high achievers should get up at 5:00 AM. Not everybody, but a lot of people.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Dr Fern Kazlow: Truth is somebody like me, my clock doesn’t work like that. My clock’s going and I write and do all kinds of creating between midnight and two in the morning.
If I did something at 5:00 AM you wouldn’t wanna be near me. I could tell you funny stories about things that I’ve done and I told you I got,
Tyson E Franklin: I, I got up at 5:00 AM for this podcast.
Dr Fern Kazlow: Yeah. Be You would not want me at 5:00 AM I used to do it though. Yeah. In New York. When I lived in New York City, I used to go on the radio and somehow stumbled to a cab at 20 to five or 20 to six and be on the [00:37:00] radio mostly before coffee and before eight o’clock I am dangerous.
I’m dangerous.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. Um, it’s really funny though, whe when I had my clinic, I used to start work at eight 30 with patients it’d be seven 40. I’d be dragging myself outta bed. I would be quickly getting something to eat and I would rock up at work just on time. And I always used to say, tell you when I’ve sold my business and I don’t have to get up, I’m gonna sleep in for as long as I want to.
Now I wake my alarm set at five o’clock every morning and I usually wake up just before the alarm goes off. That’s so, and I’m like, what happened there? But I used to be a night person. I always thought the same thing from about 10:00 PM till one or two in the morning. That was when my brain worked at the best.
But I was, I’ve been able to adapt it that now I wake up at five and I am just, yeah, I’m on fire [00:38:00] in the morning.
Dr Fern Kazlow: So it’s interesting because some people can change it and there was a whole movement to change to be a morning person. And then other people now are saying, respect your clock. Yeah, respect your clock.
So whichever, works for you is great as long as you’re getting enough rest. One of the things about having our own business is I had colleagues who saw patients at 6:00 AM. I saw patients at 10 o’clock at night and I saw clients across the world. So it could be 10 o’clock in New York and it could be in Europe six hours later, or it could be in HR 12 hours later.
Worked for me. It’s like I didn’t mind, especially when I had kids and they went to bed 10 o’clock at night during patients on the phone. Loved it. So it’s, it’s one of the cool things that we get to do. But, , back to that question of what can you do? Yeah, it’s really, see what you wanna do.
It’s really look at the whole picture. I’m, one of the things that I’m always talking about is that you will have all of these people, [00:39:00] therapists, coaches that say it’s all in your mind, or it’s all about your body, or it’s all about meditating. No, it’s all about what works for you and where things are stuck for you.
It’s most often some combination. It’s not just change your thinking, change your life. Because if you’ve got fear locked in your body or if you’ve got things that have been passed down through the generations change, your think thinking will either not work or you’ll end up with a very kind of strange thing where thinking is happening, but you’re getting attention.
Your body, your heart, something is really outta whack. So it’s get to know yourself, get help. Most of us can do little changes by ourself. But you said you had a coach for years. To me as therapists, we had lots of therapy. I’m always studying, I’m always, when I hit something up, I’ve got a lot of tools and a lot of insight.
But will I reach out? You bet I will. Because change [00:40:00] happens in relationship. Part of it’s relationship with ourself. It’s not relationship of somebody telling you about what you have to do, but it is somebody who is there really deeply listening, deeply insightful. When I work with somebody, it’s like a movie is always going on.
I see how they’re presenting right now. I see how they’re resisting movement. I see where they are that they think they can go. I see where they can’t even imagine yet that they can go and how to get them there. Because I look at a whole constellation power matrix, which is really a, it’s like a living constellation that I work with that has all of these factors, all of these moving parts.
You move some of the parts and everything starts to move and it can either constrain you or it can really help you get everything you want. When you look at what’s driving me, what’s my identity, what’s my mission, all of these different pieces with. Just inter intricacy, but [00:41:00] not getting lost in the weeds.
Does that make sense?
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So if people wanted to work with you or know more about you or some of the stuff that you are doing, what have you got available?
Dr Fern Kazlow: Okay. So, certainly people can reach out and just see what might be a fit. Like we talked about. They can message me , they can go to my website, dr kalo.com.
They can, I’m on social media and kalo is K-A-Z-L-O-W. I’m doing, some fun things where people can get a little, like I, what I call a deep slice. Uh, I’ve resisted for many, many years good resistance, right? I would not dilute what I did.
I wouldn’t do it just to reach a mass. But one of the things that I am doing now is creating some things where people can get a deep slice of. Really taking their own power back, working on their legacy, their sovereignty, their ability to create and play in infinite possibilities instead of limitation.
I’m also doing a 12 week, what I call a 12 week [00:42:00] accelerator, where you can go deep and go really make a lot of movement in 12 weeks. That’s another option. That’ll be a group. I’ll be taking a small group through the power accelerator and then I do different programs there. Masterminds, there are hybrids, but reach out.
Um, we can talk about what somebody’s needs are. I don’t do one size fits all. Okay? That’s not what I do. No surprise. , But if this is either intriguing or you’re struggling with some of these issues and, do, are you somebody who wants to master that psychology? Are you somebody who wants to really feel better in terms of self?
Because we don’t learn a whole lot of self trust and the dirty word, self love. Nobody, we don’t go there. Yeah. Very much. It’s not something every parent would want to teach their kids that. And yet the way we’ve been taught as a culture to parent really does not help that be widespread. And we bring it into our profession.
If you wanna be unshakeable, if you wanna break the loops or the stuck [00:43:00] places, then reach out. There’s all kinds of ways that, not all kinds, but there’s a number of ways and we could find the one that’s right for you. That’s the fit kind of like we talked about before.
Tyson E Franklin: No, that’s fantastic. So in summary, ’cause we’ve spoken about a lot, we’ve covered a lot of ground here.
Do you want to do summarize what we’ve spoken about
, What are the biggest takeaways that you want people to leave this episode with?
Dr Fern Kazlow: Okay. This is so funny because what came, I hate cliches and what came to my mind was something that sounds like a cliche, but I really mean it. Um, I want people to come away with that they are way more powerful than they know, , that they can create way more in their business. Whether it’s more clients, whether it’s a different work environment, whether it’s fulfillment.
They really can consciously get control of the factors that. Make a difference for every aspect of their life, professionally, personally, health, you name [00:44:00] it. Is it hard? It’s harder not to in my opinion.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Dr Fern Kazlow: Um, it’s really doable. It can be fun. People used to joke about how you would go past my office when I had my holistic center and you’d hear laughter and they’d say, how are people laughing?
You talk about all these hard things. It, we had some fun. So if you are somebody who knows this more or feels stuck or feels like you’ve given away part of yourself or you’re just not in some way where you wanna be, know that this can be changed. Again. They say not the whole elephant all at once.
Yeah. , But you really can make the difference. And that’s why I’m doing these slices. You can start to do something right now, and if you say to me, Dr. K, what, what do you want people to do? Right, right From today. Um, right from today. If you could start to one, pay attention. Pay attention instead of pushing, which we’re really good at, [00:45:00] pay attention to the messages.
Pay attention to what your feelings are trying to tell you. Pay attention to the little voices. Pay attention, and then don’t push through, but use that. What is the gateway here? What’s the opportunity? And then see what you need to do. If it’s something you feel like, I got it, I can just, oh, all I need to do is like, stop eating sugar or something.
Yeah. Right. Or all I need to do is maybe change my employees. Or if it’s something that you feel that there’s a deeper level of richness that you wanna access. If you want to change your workplace, if you wanna create clients, because if you’re doing all kinds of programs, but you are not aligned to use a woo word, but it’s not a woo.
Meaning, if you’re not really aligned with it, then you’re not gonna get the results. And you can go from program to program to program, and you’re only gonna get so far because it’s [00:46:00] not the point. It’s not the point. Do you not work with the problem? Absolutely. Work with the problem that’s presented, but look at the root.
What’s going on? You’ve gotta do both. So from today on, pay more attention. Not judging yourself, not beating yourself up. Pay more attention and then decide what do I wanna do?
Tyson E Franklin: Okay. Yeah, I just, when you said that, don’t beat yourself up. I kept picturing those movies and they have the religious person there and they’ve got the whip and they’re whipping themselves at the end of the day for all the sins that they’ve actually done.
And I think sometimes people, they beat themselves up. They’ll get to the end of the day and they’ll go, oh, another day wasted. I didn’t do whatever it is I was going to do. And then they’ll go to the next weekend program or the next event, and they keep thinking, this is gonna be the one that’s gonna change my life and make me a better person.
But they don’t realize, you gotta take that step back and [00:47:00] figure out why you’re doing what you’re doing.
Dr Fern Kazlow: And do it with love and compassion to yourself because yeah, remember that you are not doing it ’cause you are a jerk. You’re doing it ’cause you truly, I wrote an article years ago called Everybody does the best they can always.
And I got into a little bit of a thing with a publisher who loved, my articles. And she was like, I don’t believe that. And she literally started asking people on an airplane what they thought, should she publish this article? And she got a consensus of yes. And then she called me when she got off the plane and she said, okay, we’re gonna do it.
It, we are not, we’re taught our parents do it, we do it, our doctors do it. We’re taught to beat ourselves up. We’re taught to push and we don’t learn another way. To help ourselves accomplish what we want. So someone said to me once, and I loved it, they said, we were talking about somebody giving me something that I needed, and they said, gotta get this to Dr.
Castle so she can keep up slaying dragons and [00:48:00] saving lives. And my sense about what I took from that, that I’ve often used is slay your dragons, not yourself.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Dr Fern Kazlow: And that may be where we end it. Slay your dragons, not yourself, and from there, infinite possibilities.
Tyson E Franklin: Okay. Dr. K, I want to thank you for coming back on the Podiatry legends podcast.
This has been a marathon effort, and if people are listening to it this far, that means you’ve already listened to the first episode. I ended up splitting this into two episodes. And, but all the information’s been fantastic, and every time I talk to you, I, I feel better for the experience. And hope everyone that’s listening to this episode feels exactly the same way.
Dr Fern Kazlow: That just makes my day and it just reminds me of when we did the marathon about branding. Remember that? Oh
Tyson E Franklin: yeah. That was, that was a three part
Dr Fern Kazlow: went on and on and on and on. But I appreciate it. I appreciate you inviting me back. I hope we do something on AI because
Tyson E Franklin: [00:49:00] Yeah.
Dr Fern Kazlow: I think it’s really important.
Um, but this has been great and anybody has questions, let them reach out.
Tyson E Franklin: We’ll do that. Okay. Thank you very much.
Thank you so much. It’s been fun and I hope that our audience enjoys it and learns a lot. I think they will. Okay. I’ll talk to you again soon.
Thank you.