In this week’s episode of the Podiatry Legends Podcast, I’m joined once again by Jonathan Small, who’s making his 14th solo appearance. Jonathan never shies away from a bold comparison, and this time, we dig deep into the dental model and what podiatry can learn from it, and also share a few controversial ideas that we think could help the profession grow.
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Dentistry as a Benchmark
Dentistry is widely respected. Why? Dentists position themselves as specialists, invest heavily in their clinics, and charge fees that reflect their expertise. From the very beginning, dentists can’t cut corners. Setting up a practice requires serious investment in staff, equipment, and space. Compare this with podiatry, where it’s still possible to buy a bag of instruments, hire a back room in a massage clinic, and call yourself a business.
The low barrier to entry has been both a blessing and a curse for the podiatry profession. While it allows more practitioners to start working quickly, it has also dragged down the profession’s image. As Jonathan puts it, we end up looking less like trusted foot specialists and more like low-cost service providers.
Training, Status, and Fees
A frequent argument against comparing podiatry and dentistry is the length of training. Dentistry is often five years, podiatry four. But as Jonathan points out, training time is irrelevant; hairdressers may study for three years, yet many charge more than podiatrists.
The real question is: why do podiatrists undervalue their work?
In the UK, dental hygienists charge £75 for 30 minutes. Dental therapists charge £70–£140. Dentists charge £150–£300. Yet podiatrists doing comparable levels of specialist work often charge far less. If we are true foot specialists, why don’t our fees reflect that reality?
The Danger of Cheap Set-Ups
One of the most significant problems facing podiatry is the “cheap and easy” set-up model. Anyone can throw together a clinic with minimal overhead. But this drags down the profession as a whole. The public perceives podiatry as basic nail cutting and corn removal, rather than advanced biomechanics, musculoskeletal care, and life-changing interventions.
Jonathan and I argue that podiatrists must invest in clinics that reflect professional credibility. Think about a dental clinic; would you trust a dentist sterilising instruments in their laundry? Yet some podiatry clinics operate at that level, and patients notice.
Raising Standards: A Star Rating System?
One of the most exciting ideas we floated is introducing a star rating system for podiatry clinics, similar to those used by hotels or Michelin stars. Imagine walking into a clinic and seeing an official 3-star or 5-star rating displayed on the wall. This would motivate podiatrists to improve facilities, reinvest in their businesses, and ultimately elevate the entire profession.
Mindset Shifts: From Routine Care to Specialism
Dentists don’t market “routine check-ups”; they market specialist services, cosmetic improvements, and the outcomes people want. Podiatrists need to stop advertising just routine foot care and instead promote our higher-value expertise. Patients will still come for routine services, but they’ll see us as specialists rather than just nail cutters.
As Jonathan highlighted, too many podiatrists give away advanced services like ABPIs, dry needling, or mobilisation without charging extra. Dentists never do this. If we want to be respected, we need to stop undervaluing ourselves.
It’s Time to Step Up
If podiatry wants to thrive, we can’t wait for generational change. We must act now. That means:
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Investing in professional clinics.
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Charging appropriately for specialist services.
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Educating patients about the actual value of foot health.
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Letting go of low-value, backroom models that damage the profession.
As Jonathan said, feet are enablers of life. You can live without teeth, but not without feet. It’s time we started treating podiatry with the respect it deserves, and charging accordingly.
Conclusion
If today’s episode challenged your thinking, that’s a good thing. I’d love to hear your thoughts. Would a star rating system help podiatry? Do you believe we should follow the dental model more closely?
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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT (Unedited)
Tyson E Franklin: [00:00:00] Hi, I’m Tyson Franklin and welcome to this week’s episode of the Podiatry Legends Podcast, the podcast design to help you feel, see and think differently about the Podiatry profession. With me today, you may not have heard of this man. His name is Jonathan Small, and this is officially your 14th appearance as a solo guest on this podcast.
And you’ve been on multiple guest ones where we’ve had a number of guests all at the same time. Group shows. Everyone, welcome to the Jonathan Small podcast.
How you doing today, Jonathan? That’s when you retire. Tyson, I take over when you retire. Yeah, true. Yeah. Eventually one day when I’m 80.
Jonathan Small: Thank you once again for having me on Tyson. It’s always good to catch up with you, but it’s always nice to share any nuggets of possible wisdom with the with the Podiatry community.
Tyson E Franklin: You’ve been on, you hold the record. And, but I’ve got Patrick McEneany from Chicago in the [00:01:00] United States. He’s coming back on again soon. It’ll be his seventh appearance okay. It’s I like having I a familiar name coming back. ’cause the thing is you always, same as Patrick and yourself, there’s always something interesting to talk about.
And sometimes you, especially a little bit controversial.
Jonathan Small: I think we’re probably doing it the same again today. I think there’s a little bit of controversy in there.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah, there is. So let’s get into it. What do, tell us what the topic is today.
Jonathan Small: Okay this was I gave you a title of nothing but the Tooth. Yes. I don’t know if you remember the the talk that I did at foot and Ankle show, your first visit over to the uk.
But I actually highlighted a dental practice called themselves nothing but the tooth. Oh, yeah. And I talked about they branded themselves and they had a mini sparklers club. And it it was showing what you can do with the brand of your business to make it stand out from the crowd. But it’s I use the dental model as an analogy to Podiatry quite often in the forums.
I’m a strong believer [00:02:00] that us as a profession, Podiatry, we ought to be thinking of ourselves as akin to dentistry. But I’d take a fair bit of flack in the forums from people saying, no, we shouldn’t do that because they have longer training or whatever. And I thought we’d put, pull that apart a little bit today as to why I think it’s appropriate, and actually why I think that maybe we ought to be thinking of Podiatry is more important than than dentistry.
And I know they’d, with your and your family, the dentist so I thought this would be a good one for us to achieve the cut over.
Tyson E Franklin: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, my brother’s a dentist. I’ve mentioned it on the podcast just recently and numerous times over the years and yeah, I always find it funny when you mention that podiatrists, they equate how much time someone spends in dentistry, say five years compared to Podiatry, which in most states of Australia, it’s four years.
I think it’s irrelevant whether they do four years, five years. It doesn’t really matter because you have hairdressers that might do three years, and I know hairdressers that charge far more than some Podiatry. [00:03:00]
Jonathan Small: Absolutely. And the thing is we are all aware that Podiatry isn’t long enough training for us to be that fully accomplished foot specialist.
We then have to do more in order to be seen, to feel like confident enough to be that foot specialist because we don’t have the structure that dentistry has in their training. So length of training, but for you to be a competent foot specialist is gonna be five years anyhow so I think that the length of time of training really , has no relevance whatsoever.
And you’re you’re right to, to say that I think Tyson I I have experience from at my dentist whereby I actually saw they called them the dental associate. But I’ve done a bit of research this morning. Turns out that they’re most likely a dental therapists and then that’s a three year course.
And they’re not a specialist level as the dentist, but they’re above dental hygienists. Okay. And I’ve always said that we ought to think of when we’re doing foot care then it’s based at the level of the dental hygienist doing tooth care. [00:04:00] Whereas if you’re doing.
Foot specialism, then it should be at the level of dentist. Podiatry should be at that level. But for those who think that they, that length of training is significant and they don’t want to put themselves at that level, then at least think of themselves as the dental. Therapist. And and I was doing a little bit of research on the fees of these that they charge and your dental hygienist in the uk Let’s approximately double it for for Australia.
Yeah. I dunno what your fees are for dental hygienist, but maybe 75 pound for 30 minutes work. So I would postulate that most podiatrists in the UK do not charge 70 pound for 30 minutes work for their foot care that they deliver. No, they don’t. They’re not for MSK but not foot care. And then the dental therapist is 70 to 140 pounds for 30 minutes work.
So if Podiatry is at that three year level. The dentist therapist, why are we undercharging so much for it? And then the dentist obviously is a lot more 150 to 300 pounds, and that’s where I believe we, you be thinking of Podiatry. So it’s, I’ve [00:05:00] done a fair bit of looking into why aren’t we at that level what’s gone wrong?
That means that we, not at that level because they’re tooth specialists and we are foot specialists. And I don’t see any difference from a public perception point of view. Of who are the specialism side of things.
Tyson E Franklin: Okay. So I’m gonna be the devil’s advocate here.
Jonathan Small: Yeah, please do.
Tyson E Franklin: No. I totally understand where you’re going with it.
But one thing I’ve always said between, say Podiatry for example, one of the best things about Podiatry doesn’t cost a lot of money to set up a clinic. One of the worst things about Podiatry is it doesn’t cost a lot of money to set up a clinic. So what’s good about it can sometimes has been a, what I believe is a detriment to the profession.
Where someone can go and spend a couple of bucks and get some instruments, a bit of a bag, get their instruments sterilized somewhere, and go to the back room of a massage parlor. Doctor surgery. Yeah. Physio clinic. Throw a couple of people up on a bench, clip a few toenails, dig a corn [00:06:00] out, send them on their way and Hey, I have a business.
And you’re like, you have a job. It’s not really a business. Dentistry, on the other hand is a dentist cannot do that. Yeah. For a dentist to set up a clinic, they have to have a dental nurse, they have to have a receptionist at the front, so right from the day do, and they set up of A room off hand is a lot of money to set up a dental room for the drills, the plumbing.
So right from the start, there’s a big commitment, which is usually why dentists don’t graduate and go set up their own business at the back of a massage parlor because it’s impossible. Yeah. Costs too much money. So they’ll work for a few years. Absolutely. Make money. Then they reinvest it, set up a nice clinic, have to charge about, ’cause they’ve got three people they’re paying their, the wages for.
Yeah. And then they go from there. Yeah. So I understand what you’re saying, but there’s also another side to it.
Jonathan Small: Yeah, absolutely there is. [00:07:00] But I think that’s the most, one of the most damaging things to our profession is that we can just set up, yeah. In private practice, buying a few instruments, we don’t have all the tools in the toolbox then to help our patients.
We can only do the simple foot care stuff when we’re trained to a much higher level. And and it’s really holding us back as a profession to do that. And people, the public then see it as a cheap thing, a massage level therapy. It’s embarrassing sometimes. And I think that is really damaging. I think dentists got it right in that you have to have a decent business model.
With all the tools in the toolbox to help the patient with whatever comes through the door. And and project that professionalism to it. And I think this, we’ve done a previous episode about taking over an existing good Podiatry practice. I think the more we do that, the better it’s gonna be because we are gonna end up realizing that.
Doing that cheap. Setting up is not the future for Podiatry. It’s gonna be the thing that holds Podiatry back and has done over the decades. [00:08:00] And don’t get me wrong, I did that journey. I know it. I know what it feels like. Yeah, I too, I understand that it’s the easy way in. I do get it, but it is not helping us as a.
As a profession, we need to be thinking what does a dentist practice look like? What does their kit investment look like, their staff investment look like? And let’s make our foot clinics look like that because that’s gonna serve the public so much better than the way we’ve been doing it all these decades.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah, it’s, I’ve said that for years that, like the registration board, they will say that like over here in Australia we have AHPRA, which is like. They’re the bullies that look after everybody that tell us what we can and can’t do. You got your registration board, then you have AHPRA that enforce the rules.
And if you’ve ever had to deal with APHRA total bunch of knobs as far as I’m concerned. But they do serve a purpose. I do believe they need to be there, but they employ some idiots. They really do. And if there [00:09:00] anyone from ARPA is listening to this, oh yes, I’m talking about you. And might edit that out yet.
I thought I was
Jonathan Small: the controversial one.
Tyson E Franklin: No, bugger. I’m gonna leave it in. And yeah, so like AHPRA, they’re there for a reason. I believe they should be there, and they’re there to supposedly protect the public. Totally get that. But how someone can set up a dodgy backroom clinic and they look at that.
No, but that’s okay. Yeah. I might say to a patient, oh, you’re a tool. Which I have mentioned before, and the patient was, but what is interesting about that, but then someone can set up a clinic at the back of some dodgy room.
Jonathan Small: Yeah.
Tyson E Franklin: And AHPRA is like, oh, that’s all cool. That’s all fine. Yeah, of course. You must be sterilizing your instruments. You don’t have an autoclave. Yeah. Yeah. You must. You must have. You’re seeing 20 patients a day. You must have 20 sets of instruments. ’cause we are just assuming you do. Yeah. There’s no checks [00:10:00] on what some of these people are doing and it’s, I just think it’s dodgy.
Jonathan Small: Yeah, absolutely. And also, when they come in with something that they don’t have the tools in their toolkit for, they don’t necessarily refer them on ’cause they wanna hold onto the patient. Yeah. When I started in the I started my clinic 1993 by 1996, I’d got my first laser unit and I wrote to all the local Podiatry and say, I’ve got, this laser unit is great for all sorts of problems, Verrucas and MSK stuff.
And I said if you’ve got any patients, you’re not, are you able to to help out, please just send them over. I’ll have a go to get them sorted. I’ll pass them back to you afterwards. None of the state registered chiropodists pediatrist at the time referred any patient to me. None of them.
Some of the non-state registered, the other the the ones who hadn’t got the same qualification. They did refer and it was like, hold on. You are telling me that you’re fixing every single problem when you’ve got no specialist tools in your toolbox. [00:11:00] You are just wanna hang onto the patient.
How is that serving the patient? How is that a good impression to the public? It’s not, and they just don’t see these things.
Tyson E Franklin: No, I think it’s fair. Imagine you a doctor, surgeon. I’ve said this before too. You go to the doctor and you go, oh, I’ve been coming here for Yeah. Four years. You’ve never taken my blood pressure.
Yeah, no, I don’t have that equipment. Yeah. What do you mean you don’t have that equipment? I can’t afford it. Dunno where to put it. Yeah. I’m just, I just come to this back room of this dodgy place and I’m a doctor, but hey, I can write you a script for um, a bit of marijuana if you need it.
Jonathan Small: So we’ve got some, we’ve got some reasons I think historically why why dentistry is ahead of the game than compared to Podiatry. But I think we need to work as a profession to change that when in this modern day age of ai um, having gone through the internet, you now into the ai. Can I just
Tyson E Franklin: go back one step though?
I just, in case Of course like, because I’m not, I’m not trying to upset. People I’m trying to upset certain podiatrists and I totally [00:12:00] understand if you are providing a service out to a, like a regional, remote area who does not have a Podiatry service and can’t get one, and you are packing up your car and you were driving out there and providing that service, I take my hat off to you because I think.
Okay. It’s not the greatest setup in the world, and I’ve done this sort of work. I used to fly up to Weipa and work out of a motel room, so I know exactly what it’s like. But I think if you are providing a service somewhere like that, then that’s a good thing, even though it’s not perfect. But it is a good thing because I’ve seen specialists go to Weipa and those, and they work outta the same motel room that I was.
So we, we all do it that way. But when you’re in a capital city or you’re in a regional area where. You have the chance of having a professional setup, then I think even if you can’t do it right at the being, which I think you should, but if you can’t, you should be working towards it and progressively [00:13:00] getting better every year.
So if you’ve been out five years, if you don’t have a, a clinic set up within five years and you’re still working outta the back of dodgy rooms, you’re not trying. You’re not actually trying to get better. Yeah,
Jonathan Small: I understand where there may be exceptions to it, but I still go with the thing.
How many dentists do that sort of thing? Oh, they don’t? None. Zero. If there is, then that’s the comparison. That makes sense. But if there isn’t, then you’ve gotta think, are you the, is podiatry the right people to be doing it?
We have foot health practitioners.
And maybe that’s more appropriate for them to do that with the Podiatry being that foot specialist. ’cause otherwise, if we keep doing the foot care and not the foot specialism, the public perception won’t change. We won’t drive this profession forward to the, to where it can be.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. That Weipa where I used to visit, which is like a mining town up in the Gulf.
The, there was a dentist who used to visit there as well and an optometrist, but they had a room at the hospital and they had spent money to get a dental chair. It was an old, dodgy looking thing, but they did have it set up there. So they [00:14:00] did have some sort of permanent facilities where drills and all that could actually be used.
Yeah. But yeah, it didn’t look as nice as the city place, but like I said. Those sort of things are acceptable ’cause the people that live in those town, they just appreciate anybody coming up there.
Jonathan Small: So I was saying about this this historical levels of dentistry compared to Podiatry. Yeah. And and the fact that we are now in an age the AI age where the ability to change the world can happen nearly overnight. Okay? You don’t need to wait decades to facilitate change these days.
You can do ever so quickly through good communication making use of the resources that are out there to help you and being consistent in that to. Approach. So the more that podiatrists let go of these mindset blocks as say, we are not at the level of dentistry, yeah. The better it’s going to be.
And I did the talk and it on a couple of occasions now whereby I’ve said to a, and I think you possibly [00:15:00] saw it when we did work Smart Hard in Australia, is that. If if you needed to, when you came over to the uk we were going around visiting Stonehenge. Yes. If you had to go and visit Stonehenge, we had to walk from the car park.
Okay. So you could you get from that car park to Stonehenge with no teeth? Yes. No problem at all. You could easily do it with no teeth. You could, did you do it with no hair? Yes. You did it with no hair? We both did. Could you do it with no feet
Tyson E Franklin: if
Jonathan Small: you were pushing
Tyson E Franklin: me
Jonathan Small: in a chair? Exactly. You’d need some other assistance, wouldn’t you?
Yeah. Yeah. Feet enablers to live our lives. Yeah. Hair doesn’t enable us to live our lives. Teeth. You can cope without teeth to live your life. Feet. Enablers to live our life. That is massive and we fail to appreciate that for patients. We failed to communicate that to patients. How important feet are. And the other analogy, and I may have talked about it on podcast episode, is that if you’re [00:16:00] unfortunate enough to have cancer and be told you have to have chemotherapy Yeah.
And you get told you the hair might fall out, nearly everybody will accept that as a side effect to get them over the cancer. If they got told they’ll lose their feet if they do the chemotherapy. Would it be such an easy decision to have the chemotherapy?
Tyson E Franklin: I think it would save your life. Yes.
Jonathan Small: Yeah. But would it be as easier decision? Would it be as instant a decision?
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah, but the thing is, if you lose your hair, it will grow back. Your feet won’t grow back. So it’s
Jonathan Small: but it’s not, it’s gonna make life,
Tyson E Franklin: it’s gonna make life inconvenient. But I think the other advantage dentists have, where I think they have sold themselves very well over the years, is the whole cosmetic side of dentistry and how appealing somebody looks when they have.
Really nice teeth so yeah, Will market Jonathan, like John, they marketed the solutions. If you were out at the, if you were at the pub and you met your wife she was sitting there and you were talking to her [00:17:00] and she had no feet, would you keep talking to her?
Probably if she had no teeth. I don’t, I reckon you would’ve gone oh, I dunno about this one. She’s got no teeth. I might move on. I’m gonna move on to the Welsh woman who’s got teeth,
Jonathan Small: but at the same time, doesn’t that show the superficiality Yeah. Of human nature.
Tyson E Franklin: It does. Yeah. And that’s what I mean. That’s why I think dentistry has sold dentistry. It’s not just about. When I was a kid growing up, if you had a hole in your tooth, you had the option to fill it or pull it out. There was nothing about, yeah.
Yeah. Your teeth looking good.
Jonathan Small: So this is the point is I’m not saying what dentistry has is doing wrong. Yeah. As in they’re not wrong for doing that. Yeah. We, I’m saying what Podiatry is doing wrong, not embracing that.
Tyson E Franklin: Or they’re not selling the importance trying
Jonathan Small: promote. Promoting the same thing.
Yeah. So that we actually get it more on a par with dentist. I, so I had a patient in just recently who [00:18:00] she’d had some cast orthotics. She’s had them for 12 years.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Jonathan Small: And and they’d broken. Okay. And and she came into, I hadn’t seen her, that was from somebody else. She came into me and I was talking to her about replacement of orthotics and I said, the casted orthotics these days are I clinic 450 pounds.
And she absolutely balked at the cost. And I said, how much of those things in your ears? She went 3000 pounds. I said, so you are balking at something that lasts 12 years Yeah. For your feet and kept you mobile for 12 years. You spend 3000 pounds probably per year in order to make sure you can hear a bit better.
Yeah. Yeah. And she, she couldn’t understand that, what she was doing was completely devaluing her feet and her foot solutions compared to her hearing. But that’s an
Tyson E Franklin: issue with, that’s an issue with the public. They’re not educated enough about how important your feet are as well.
It’s just a Podiatry thing.
Jonathan Small: But who are the most, who are the best people to educate the public about how important their feet are home? How good [00:19:00] Podiatry is? We are? Oh, yeah.
Tyson E Franklin: I agree. If every Podiatry clinic around the world looked like yours, or my old Clinic, when you look at these clinics, you go, geez, that’s a nice looking clinic. If every Podiatry clinic around the world looked like that, then the respect level of Podiatry would go up. Big time.
Jonathan Small: So the only people who can do that are the podiatrists.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Jonathan Small: So that’s why hopefully those listening to this podcast, we going think, what can I do to push the profession forward?
What can I do to protect the profession for the next generation of podiatrists and for the public going forwards? Because if we don’t push it forward. Then it’s not gonna happen, and it’s all gonna fail. It’s all gonna fall apart. And so we need to be moving forwards in the same way that, you get a new car, you don’t keep going with the old banger, you get a new phone, you don’t keep going with the old phone, let’s get new Podiatry.
Let’s not keep going with the old Podiatry models.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah, I think that’s
Jonathan Small: really important. Yeah.
Tyson E Franklin: I think where it’s where it needs to start though, is [00:20:00] what’s already out there in the public, I think will be a generational thing to change. So the people who are you currently at the moment working in dodgy little rooms.
Some of ’em might be working really nice medical centers, so I am not talking about you, but some of these are working in the, just the back of clinics where you look at and you go, oh, they just, it doesn’t look professional. They don’t have electronic benches no good for their back. The lighting may not be the best, the ventilation isn’t as good.
There’s the nail dust everywhere. So I think generation that’s gonna keep going for another 10, 15 years.
Jonathan Small: But there’s a shortcut to that. Tyson. We don’t have to wait 20 years, 40 years for that to happen. The shortcut is take that the Podiatry, take that caseload go and approach a good clinic that’s already set up and go and work for that good clinic that’s got all the facilities.
But they won’t do that. Yeah. And get a job doing it. Talk to the owner about maybe you could take over from that clinic in the future. Yeah. We don’t have to wait generationally because [00:21:00] we’re just gonna fall more from, more behind. We’ve gotta be more proactive. We’ve got to actually grab the bull by the horns and go for this if we want PO to thrive.
And so my suggestion is don’t do that anymore. Let’s populate these good clinics with even more patients. So they’re employing more podiatrists and somebody even in that clinic, if they are an appropriate business person, could take it over. Of course, everybody wants to think they can do business, but they just dabble in business.
They don’t really understand business, they haven’t had good training in business. The reason why they get a successful business is because they give foot treatments away so cheaply.
Tyson E Franklin: There’s a couple of issues here. One
Jonathan Small: go
Tyson E Franklin: on is. There’s certain po they go, oh, but I care more about my patients than money. Oh yeah.
Because I don’t care and I’m here about patient. No, you don’t because you really cared about your patient you would be investing money back into your clinic and you would have a better clinic and you would have the toys to look after your patients. But So when people say, I care more about patient’s money, biggest lie that they tell themselves.[00:22:00]
Yeah. The other reason, there’s certain podiatrists out there who will be doing dodgy sort of setups who wouldn’t go to a better clinic and work there because they’re greedy and they’re selfish. Oh, I don’t wanna go and work there because I might if just share some of my money. You go,
Jonathan Small: Yeah.
Tyson E Franklin: But it’s better for the patient, it’s better for the profession. And the thing is, you should probably make more money.
Jonathan Small: Exactly. They’re not looking at the bigger picture. Yeah. Yeah. Because they can’t say, actually it’s gonna give them better rewards in the long term rather than that short term quick fix.
Yeah. For that’s only for them. Yeah. Yeah. You’re absolutely right. It’s so my
Tyson E Franklin: other thing is, yeah, I think the biggest change would’ve come, and this will may never happen, but the fastest change would be if the universities and the registration boards put their heads together. Ranked Podiatry clinics.
Are you a five star clinic? Four star, three star? Almost like a Google ranking or like an Uber review. If you are a [00:23:00] Podiatry clinic and you’re working at the back of a dodgy little setup because I’m not talking about the ones that have got a nice clinic setup within a nice medical setup, the, you know the clinks we’re talking about and they give you a one star ranking ’cause you don’t have an autoclave.
Yeah. You don’t have a chair that goes up and down. You have, don’t have good lighting. You don’t have good ventilation. You’re a one star clinic, then when students are gonna do placements, before you do a placement, you have the choice. Do you wanna go to a five star and a four star clinic?
Yeah. Or do you want to go to a one star? So at least that way when or when you go there, yeah. Makes, and it should be on the door of their business that you are a one makes you have been ranked by the association, the registration board, and the universities as a one star clinic.
Jonathan Small: Yeah. So I think that’s a great suggestion to say, I know in the UK they did an accreditation scheme or they do an accreditation scheme to make, to say you are at the top of where you should be.
Yeah. As if you are a four or five star. Really. But but they do, it’s on the basis. The public. The [00:24:00] public are gonna go, oh, they’ll go to an accredited practice. I don’t think it works like that. I think you’re actually, no, I don’t think accreditation is an internal. System. Yeah. Yes. The public can see it, but in terms of system, because if you are ranked as a one star clinic, you’re gonna go, what do I have to do to be two star?
Yeah. Or you accept that you’re one star and you are only going to be that level and the public see it as that. In the same way a hotel rank rating system, if you go to a three star hotel, it’s not gonna be as good . The outcome’s not being as good as going to a five star.
Tyson E Franklin: You
Jonathan Small: understand that? So I, yeah, I like that. I like that as a, as an option from a marketing perspective for for both the Podiatry and for the public and to change the profession. Yeah.
Tyson E Franklin: And I know some people would go, yeah, and they could have a five star clinic should have, and they say, what a five star ClearWay no different to a five star hotel.
Yeah. If you don’t have a, if you cannot drive your car in at the valet pull up, get your bags out. You will never be a five star hotel. You can’t. Yeah. Because that is a, that’s [00:25:00] part of what makes a five star hotel.
Jonathan Small: Maybe we ought just start it. Maybe we’ll just start a ranking system for clinics and start Yeah, we just put online, we’ll just go
Tyson E Franklin: around to people’s clinics.
We’ll just rank ’em online ourselves.
Jonathan Small: Yeah. Yeah. Go Podiatry Legends star rating.
Tyson E Franklin: Oh, geez. Wouldn’t that go? Oh geez. That’d go down like a lead. Wouldn’t, it’d be fun. It’d be fun doing it. It’d be fun but like I know that there was a Podiatry in Cairns and just a dodgy setup. Just a dodgy setup.
I used to look and go. That just does not reflect well. On the profession, but I think if they said five star clinic, this is what he need, four star, this is what it’s, and the thing is, nothing wrong with a four star hotel. Yeah. So there’s nothing wrong with a four star Podiatry clinic. And like you said, even if you’re going to a three star hotel, sometimes I’ve stayed in three star hotels and I’ve been quite happy once I stayed in a two star hotel.
Didn’t like it.
Jonathan Small: Yeah. I
Tyson E Franklin: dunno why I chose it. [00:26:00]
Jonathan Small: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And of course it would be a bit of a balance against the the rating system, review system like Google, and we’ve talked about that on a previous episode how full Slack can be as well. Because it’d be far more set against proper criteria to say what you start rating.
Tyson E Franklin: It shouldn’t be, it shouldn’t be one person’s decision, let’s say, oh, that you are a one star or you’re a five star. It should be if you have this, and this. You tick all those boxes. You RA five stuff. So you send something into the registration board, whoever it is, and you go, here’s proof that I have all these things, photographs, whatever it is.
Yeah. And bang, you get it. But if you, yeah, there’s a lot of peary things that do not have an autoclave on site, don’t have one because they’re working in multiple locations and they take all the instruments and they give them autoclavebed in their laundry at home Cas, that’s where you want to have your autoclave in your laundry.
And or I’ve seen things where the autoclave is set up in the kitchen of the clinic.
Jonathan Small: Yeah. To me that’s [00:27:00] not a
Tyson E Franklin: five star setup.
Jonathan Small: No, that’s right. And this all feeds into us projecting the image of Podiatry. This is really where we’ve gotta get to and everybody on board is to project the image of good Podiatry out there.
And what would you want to do as a receiver of that service? So what would you want your parents to be like again? That, oh your children to be getting as a receiver of Podiatry services. Yeah. Would you want them to be going to the one cell? Would you want them to go to five star?
And, it’s we’ve gotta. Take away from all our biases and all our mindset blocks and put ourselves on the other side of it and think of it from the patient perspective. And we need to be communicating to that patient all the time. So for instance, as an example I had we do APIs and TPIs and there’s been a discussion in the forum this week about a UK podiatry about how much do you charge for these?
So my fee structure isn’t based on specifics like that. It’s ba based on a range of things, whatever’s needed within the Yeah. Appointment. And I had one patient who walked away. He came in with cold blue [00:28:00] toes and he’d been to another Podiatry who just told him to wear special in insoles and he wanted to get a second opinion.
So he came to me and I ran through A-B-P-I-T-B-P-I. I was able to reassure him there wasn’t anything to worry about. And he and give him some appropriate advice around it. And he got his bill of, I dunno, hundred and 80 pounds or whatever. Yeah. And and then he kicked up a first his wife kicked up a first to start with because it was like five times more than the other Podiatry to charge him.
Yeah. And I’m going, but he’s got the solutions and the answers and the reassurance. Ah, but you shouldn’t be that much more. And I go. Why shouldn’t I be that much more? Because I’ve done specialist tests. Oh, those tests aren’t, I, I don’t think you, we should pay that much for those tests. And when I worked at that, they actually paid 30 pounds for the test when we actually looked at it.
Yeah. But they’re putting to Google ai, how much is it to do? And A BPI. Yeah. In the uk, how much did it cost? And they came back and said, the prices for A BPI could start from 395 pounds. [00:29:00] That was at a vascular unit being done by a technician.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Jonathan Small: Yeah. So why are podiatrists giving it away for free?
Why am I only showing 30 pound for? Why aren’t we going, hold on. If you’re in a vascular unit having an A BPI, you be charged 400 quid whyt.
Tyson E Franklin: How much is a massage in the uk? If I, I had a sore back. Legit. Yeah. Legit massage. I don’t wanna know about any of the dodgy stuff, Jonathan. That’s legit massage.
Jonathan Small: Wrong. I dunno. I haven’t known one for a long time. I suppose for 50 quid, but but if you go to a a beauty place. Yeah. Yeah. A spa, beauty spa then you may pay a hundred pounds for it.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. And that person could have no qualifications.
Jonathan Small: Yeah. I know.
Tyson E Franklin: They’re just walking in.
Jonathan Small: Yeah. Yeah so it’s all about how we communicate this to our patients.
So when we take in something that’s really specialist, really knowledgeable, expensive bits of kit, and we give it for free, unless you show the patient that they’re having [00:30:00] 400 quids worth of care for free, there’s no gain anywhere for anybody. None other than the patient pocket. Yeah. Because you haven’t communicated to them that it’s a surprise and delight.
Oh, today we’re gonna do this for free for you. So there’s no, they don’t realize the value of it. Yeah. And you’ve devalued that skill and knowledge and that equipment you’ve got. That doesn’t make any sense to me. I can’t get my head around that. And it doesn’t, and it doesn’t help us as a profession pushing forwards and
Tyson E Franklin: to be that.
Yeah. I remember one of my events, can’t remember which one it was, and I said, I’ll put your hand up if you’ve done. Was it foot mobilization? Yeah. Everyone put their hand up. Put your hand up if you’ve done dry needling and everyone put their hand up and they go, okay, keep your hand up if you charge extra money for that service when someone comes in for the consultation and nearly everyone’s hand went down.
Yeah. And I went why are we doing the extra training? Why are we giving these services away for free? They should be. [00:31:00] Person’s coming for whatever your treatment is. And then these are add-on things that you can actually change for.
Jonathan Small: And the thing is they go to the dentist.
They don’t get it for free. No. They get charged for each of the things that they get. And I don’t get why Podiatry think we are different. Why do we want to be different from dentistry? Dentistry a successful business model. It’s successful for the dental health of the nation. Why would we not want the same for the foot health of the nation and have a successful profession?
I don’t get it. So why don’t we just emulate dentistry model? Why don’t we look at that as a successful model and aim to be more like that? Whereby we are actually getting the the higher status the better medical recognition. We are satisfying the patient’s needs either cosmetic or pain.
We have commercial success and we have more attractive career prospects. You look at a, the dentist and it’s aspirational, Podiatry, and I’ve been fighting for years for it to become more [00:32:00] aspirational and these are the things that are gonna really help. Overall. And and so when somebody comes back with that negative thought, oh, we can’t charge the same as dentists, it is just your mindset because I do in my clinic charge very similar to what the, my dentist charge next door, my FHP charges.
Same to what the dental hygienist charges next door.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. My brother used to say to me, I can’t believe how much money you make. And I go, what? What are you talking about? He goes. I just didn’t think Podiatry could make the sort of money that you make.
Yeah. So what you do if you charge correctly now I’ve I’m now like semi-retired and have been since I was 50. Yes. And my brother is a dentist and he is still working hard. So if you set your business up the right way and you do the right thing and you learn like what we’re talking about now, there’ll be certain people listening to this now and they’ll go, you guys are assholes.
I don’t like you. I can’t believe they’ve even listened this far. They probably turned off ages [00:33:00] ago actually.
Jonathan Small: But they still listen,
Tyson E Franklin: but they still listen because there’s certain people that don’t like us but they wanna know what we’re gonna say. But there’ll be other people that we listen to this and going, yeah, they’ll be agreeing with us a hundred percent.
And there’ll be other people that I think we’ve, the idea is to make them go, you know what? I don’t know if I agree or not. I’m open to the suggestion that yes, maybe I can do things a little bit different. And what I’d love to also see is back at the university level, is all the lecturers at the university level, putting on their positive Podiatry hats when they’re talking to students and if they have any negativity about the profession, private practice, certain practitioners, what people should or should not be charging to.
Just keep it to themselves and don’t. Blurt out their negativity to students because they students then take those sometimes just backward thinking into their career. Yeah.
Jonathan Small: Yeah.
Tyson E Franklin: And they just think that’s [00:34:00] the norm when it’s not.
Jonathan Small: Yeah, absolutely. And it is just so important for us to get rid of those negative thoughts to, to move forward quickly.
I don’t think we need to be taking a generation, I think we need to be doing it yesterday and pushing forward every single day to, to think what can serve the pa. P patient and the profession better because ultimately that’s gonna serve you as a Podiatry. And and there’s no lose to this.
I don’t see any any issue with it. I’ve don’t, I’ve never experienced any issue other than negative backlash from patients because it’s not fitting in their preconceived ideas when I reeducate them. Yeah. Then, but that’s their negative. Backlash. Yeah. They can either absorb what the benefits are for them, or they can focus on what they’re losing, so financially, but of course they’ll go away and then they’ll spend it on a holiday or I have cost of coffee at least three times a day, or whatever it is.
Yeah. It is their choices where they spend their money.
Tyson E Franklin: I’ve had podiatrists who have reached out me and say, oh, Tyson, I’d love to come to your [00:35:00] Podiatry. Marketing masterclass in Liverpool. It’s too much. I can’t afford that. Yeah.
Again, seriously you can’t afford $495, not pounds. So let’s say about two 50 pounds or whatever, 2 45 I, if you can’t afford that, then you need to be there to figure out how to actually make that sort of money and like Sarah who was at this year’s one. Yeah. And she said, oh my God I made so much money after I, I got back.
I did this, I applied that, and my clinic has gone gangbusters. Yeah. Ever since. So I’m thinking if you have that attitude, you can’t afford to invest in yourself, that attitude that you’re carrying is probably what you are passing on to your patients as well.
Jonathan Small: Absolutely. And I and they also, it’s that that narrative that you tell yourself when you see an opportunity out there.
And I’m absolutely bewildered by this wind in world of Podiatry. You see an opportunity and you talk yourself outta the opportunity before you’ve [00:36:00] even got any information on the opportunity. So a lady posted this week again saying that she was relocating and wondered about getting a job in another practice.
And and I made the comment that that there was a practice in their area that was recently for sale. And she said, and she came back and she. I had a look, but I can’t afford that at the moment. As far as I know, there was no price tag on that practice. That was for sale.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Jonathan Small: The business owner may have allowed you to work in it and to take it over from the fees that are generated. And it’s but unless you have the conversation, then you don’t know. And I’m looking at at my exes. . And I remember, in my, I’ve run this mail order and I was looking at, somebody else had started a mail order and I said to them, look, maybe you ought to look at taking that over.
And they went, we can’t afford it. And I went. I haven’t even said a price. I just want the service to continue. Yeah, you, no it’s just crazy. But we get these negative rhetorics. We don’t, we won’t actually step outta comfort zone and [00:37:00] go and have a conversation to get some more information.
Talk about possibilities. My clinks just been valued, Tyson. And you don’t see clinics in the UK at the value that mine’s been officially valued at, unless they’re multi chair clinics. Yeah. In the back of the PEN magazine or online adverts, you’ll see clinics sailing for 20,000, 50,000.
Rarely does it go over a hundred thousand. So my clinics just been a bit officially valued. 400,000. Okay. I’m a single chair clinic and I only operate on three days a week. I’m not expecting somebody to suddenly have 400,000.
They can just land on me. Yeah. I’ve got to be open to discussions around how can it work, how will it work best for somebody to take it over? If nobody comes forward to have that discussion, then. It’s not gonna happen. The sale’s not gonna work. But also they’re missing out on the golden opportunity because within two years that business pays for itself.
And it’s only two years of them actually working and not taking all the rewards that business offers to then get it in the future. And I like how you only
Tyson E Franklin: [00:38:00] work three days a week too, which is good.
Jonathan Small: Yeah. Yeah, so it’s just, we’ve got to, we’ve gotta think of everything we project.
When you’re projecting your visits, it’s only worth 20,000. Then it’s, we are gonna hold back podiatry, you tell me your dental practice that sells for 20 or 50,000. It doesn’t, does it, but going back half million, whatever.
Tyson E Franklin: But when people are looking at Podiatry as profession and this is what I don’t think the profession sometimes understands, you’ll have.
People finishing high school and they go, okay, I need to go and choose a profession. Yeah. When they select dentistry, they know from day doc I’m gonna be a dentist and I’m gonna make good money. Yes. Yeah. Now, if they were a student, they came to my clinic and they said, I’m gonna be a Podiatry, they would’ve left thinking exactly the same thing.
I’m gonna make good money. Yes. Yeah. But if they’ve gone to a one or two star Podiatry clinic [00:39:00] and they’re looking at Podiatry and they’re going, I don’t wanna do that. Yeah, I wanna do something else. And I’ve seen over the last 30 years, so many, like when I first graduated, nearly every Podiatry clinic, it was an okay Podiatry clinic.
Like in today’s standards, they wouldn’t compare but for the day, yeah, nearly every Podiatry clinic. Was a pretty okay clinic. And as the time went on they kept, there were always good clinics here. There were very few dodgy, like what I class dodgy operators. Yeah.
Now it’s every second medical center’s got a Podiatry working at the back. Half a day here, two days there. Yeah. Half a day over here picking up their instruments, moving from one place, packing up their box of tricks, doing the juggling through the reception to the next place. There’s so many, they’re everywhere now.
So if I was a student coming through and that was all I was exposed to, I wouldn’t be doing this job. I would never would’ve done it. Yeah. Yeah. I would’ve gone and done something else.
Jonathan Small: That’s [00:40:00] right, because it’s not aspirational. It’s not what your dream is. Yeah, absolutely. And we and we are all concerned about the future of Podiatry.
Unless we get off our backsides and change our behaviors, then it, it is doomed. We need to be working everybody together within the profession to change the future of the profession. I there’s just no doubt in my mind that we’ve gotta just pull together to do it. And it’s and it’s really important.
I had a Podiatry who came and spent some time with me recently. And and he watched me and I ended up getting, having a day that brought in 3,800 pounds no cast orthotics. And it, and I messaged him the total at the end of the day.
And he went, I am in awe of you. Yeah. And that’s excellent. I’m thinking, I’m not doing anything different to what others are doing. It’s what he would do in his practice. He’s just, I’m just charging appropriately for it. I’m giving as much care. I’m doing the same job.
But he’s in awe of my ability to charge what I do. And I think all it’s taken is for me to. [00:41:00] Stop thinking about it from my perspective, think of it from the patient perspective, not from their pocket perspective. I don’t do that because they have their choices where they spend their money, they have their choices about how much they earn and what job they go into and how much they spend on training, or how much they invest in themselves or what risks they take.
Those are their choices. Yeah. But from their, from the public perception for their health and their value of their feet. Then I look at it from that perspective.
Tyson E Franklin: And I think what we’re talking about here applies to Australia, it applies to the uk, probably New Zealand.
I’m not sure about Canada. Definitely not America. The US Podiatry over there, completely different. Yeah. Their level of professionalism is. Way over the top. I mean, they, They do not have a low opinion of themselves at all in any way.
Jonathan Small: No.
Tyson E Franklin: No. And that’s what I love when I’m in American. I’m with a group of podiatrists over there.
Jonathan Small: Yeah.
Tyson E Franklin: I don’t feel any lesser than them. No. They treat me [00:42:00] exactly the same when it comes to biomechanics, we are on par, if not better.
Jonathan Small: Yeah. We just don’t
Tyson E Franklin: do the surgical side of things as part of our normal training.
Jonathan Small: Yeah.
Tyson E Franklin: They really, they chose to be podiatrists. They respect what they do, and they all, and they actually all lift each other.
Jonathan Small: Yeah, very positive. I think the major contributor to that is when you want, you go to do your production training, you’re trained at this level, you’re trained at a really good level and you’ve got potential aspirations for ultrasound training, injection therapy training prescribing, all these things.
’cause you are that being trained as that foot specialist. And you go into the real world and the first thing you do is pick up a pair of nail clippers.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah.
Jonathan Small: And I think that’s where the problem lies. And you don’t feel like you’ve done a treatment unless you’ve picked a pair of nail clippers. I think that’s a real, that, that takes away you feeling as good as professional, as specialists. ’cause you’ve just picked up a pair of [00:43:00] nail clippers.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. I like, I never liked picking ’em up, but I did. But when I was talking to, Dr. Patrick DeHeer a couple of weeks back on the podcast. Yeah.
And he will be doing surgery on the foot, and he said he has no problems at all. Pick up a pair of clippers, cutting some old lady’s toenails because it makes her day and does not bother him in the slightest.
Jonathan Small: Yeah I understand that, but what I’m saying is when you come out college, you pick them up.
Yeah. You don’t go, I’m gonna pick up the ultrasound scanner. You go, I’m gonna pick up the nail clippers. Instead of pushing forwards as the profession. And I think that’s where we’re struggling. I do, I think the profession needs to be focusing more on, on foot specialism and to be like the dentist.
Tyson E Franklin: This was another thought I had. A few years ago. Okay. And I’m throwing ’em all out. They might as well throw out one more in a pod Australia’s four years. [00:44:00] I think you should, and especially ’cause I said there’s a shortage at the moment.
I think at the end of two years you should be allowed to leave if you choose to. And you are a Podiatry assistant or you are a chiropodist, whatever term they wanna use. ’cause they know chiropody is still used in Canada, so that wouldn’t be the appropriate term because guys in Canada are really freaking good.
Yeah. But at the end of two years you, you’re G given all the certain training and you can do all general foot care work and you can do everything, but you don’t do sports, don’t do biomechanics, don’t do orthotics, don’t do surgery because there’s a lot of people that’s all they want to do. So I’m thinking why not just let them leave at the end of two years and they get job, but they have to work for a Podiatry.
Yeah. Who has a four or five star? Yeah. And yeah, and but then if you choose, no, I want to go on and be a Podiatry. Then you do the sports, the biomechanics and all that. Yeah. Yeah. So when [00:45:00] you graduate, you are spending majority of time in the areas that you want to do, because that’s why you went on for the extra two years.
If you chose, you didn’t want to, you could have left it at the end of two years, and you get a job doing routine foot care.
Jonathan Small: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I equally pull, do routine foot care, but the point that I’m I make sure is that the patients understand that I do much more than foot care.
Yeah, it is doing the, all of the stuff around feet, not just doing their foot care. So it’s not doing the two year training, it’s doing the five year training and whatever. Yeah that’s what mean, so
Tyson E Franklin: The Podiatry who’s done the four years. Can still do routine foot care because Yeah. Yeah.
When I had my clinic, I would do routine foot care on a patient. Yeah. And while I was doing it, instead of talking about baking cakes, I would be talking about why the hard skin was there, why that corn developed in that spot. Yeah. Just in part of polite conversation trying to educate them. Yeah. Then when they wanted to reappoint to book back in with me, the only way you could book back in [00:46:00] with me is if you had a biomechanical assessment.
Yeah. Because I only did routine foot care on patients that actually cared about their feet. Those that just wanted them trimmed every six to eight weeks and didn’t give a rats about it. Yeah, you can book, you can go and see one of the other people that work with me.
Jonathan Small: Yeah. Absolutely.
Tyson E Franklin: And therefore, I, my patients that I had a number of ’em.
They still did routine foot care on, and they may have only got only ever done that assessment. They may never have got orthotics, but at least they cared enough to want to know a little bit more.
Jonathan Small: Yeah. Yeah. No, it’s, it is a good way because actually you’re engaging them with the patients who potentially can help to change your business, your yourself or your, or the profession, just by being more interested in fee.
It’s the other thing I think it comes down to is that marketing dentists don’t market routine checkups. So why did Podiatry’s market routine foot care?
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah, I know They all know we do it. We need
Jonathan Small: marketing market, the specialist stuff. You’ll still attract the foot care, but market the specialist stuff.
Yeah, like [00:47:00] dentist market, the specialist stuff because then you are a more the message going out to the public is Podiatry is for specialism. the minute you market on foot, I don’t market foot care at all. I still get lots of foot care patients. Yeah. We never used
Tyson E Franklin: to either.
Jonathan Small: When I see them I say, great, you’ve been assessed.
Now you’ve seen that you’re suitable to go and see our foot health practitioner whose are cheaper. You have a choice who you want to see. If it’s new patient tending more now to say no, you go to the foot health practice. But existing patients I’ll say to them, you’ve got a choice. You can go see ’em cheaper or you can carry on with me.
And they, they have that choice financially then but my marketing. He’s all around foot specialism, not around foot care.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. I don’t think I ever didn’t add any marketing at all towards routine foot care. And I know that my clinic, at the time of selling it was probably like 70 30 to routine foot care, to MSK and biomechanics and orthotics because that was all we ever promoted so to me it didn’t have to, didn’t have to promote routine foot care. But there are clinics there that [00:48:00] they don’t like buying mechanics. They don’t underst standby mechanics. They don’t do orthotics. That’s the only thing they do promote is routine foot care.
But yeah, they should be asking patients. Hey, do you know you’ve got this happening? If you don’t, if and if they don’t wanna do it, they should refer ’em on.
Jonathan Small: Go and refer it, Tom, which brings it back to the original discussion we said about stop trying to hold onto the patients and pass them on if you haven’t got all the tools in your toolbox to help them to the best.
We should be caring about our patients enough to let go of them. Yeah. When we can’t service them properly.
Tyson E Franklin: Okay. I’m looking at the time. I think we’ve annoyed enough people,
Jonathan Small: not the dentist. The dentist love us now. Oh
Tyson E Franklin: yes. It’s but it is, it’s one of those things, like you said, this is something that people talk about all the time.
I go to conferences, people talk about it. Anyone, if anyone’s got this far through the podcast and we’ve upset them that much, they’re never gonna change anyway. But I think even if [00:49:00] a few percent of people that listen to this episode go, you know what, maybe I can do a little bit better. Do I really want to be, oh, what if they do bring in a star ranking?
Where am I gonna be? Yeah. Do you want to be the two star Podiatry clinic or do you wanna be at least three star or can you go up to a four star? And if, I think, if every Podiatry knew, this is what a five star one looks like, this is what a four star, this is what a three star, this is what a two star.
This is what a one star looks like. In fact, you are gonna get deregistered ’cause you shouldn’t be a one star. But if people knew that and they go, okay, so if I wanna be a four star, this is what I need to do next. And they can work on that. And if someone four star for them, they go, oh, so this is what I need to do.
It’s almost like you are Michelin star restaurants. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s. Yeah. I actually, I don’t mind the idea of this star system.
Jonathan Small: Yeah. Maybe we’ve started something there. We could, I’ll tell you what get your listeners to message in if they felt like the idea of a star rating system.
Yeah. Maybe you could take it further.
Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. If we [00:50:00] all pushed if as a group we said let’s start a star system on Podiatry clinics. I think if you got the right Podiatry brains in a room together and said, we’re gonna come up with a. A star system from one to five on what is and it’s not saying if you are a one star clinic, then you’re a one star clinic.
It is what it is. But I reckon if you got some heads together and said this is what it’s, and you actually pushed it out there and said, this is what we believe. Where do you sit?
Jonathan Small: I’m gonna, I’m gonna make it even easier for you, Tyson. Yeah. In the day of and days of ai, now you can get all that done and you just have to check that it was validated with a human opinion or human’s opinion.
Yeah. The AI would generate it all for us and then and then they’d just have to run it past some key people. They wouldn’t have to be in the room coming up with it. The AI would do it for you. Yeah. If you’d, and then you can
Tyson E Franklin: run around, you can run around the UK in your retirement. Jonathan was stars and just going stick them on people’s doors around their [00:51:00] clinic.
Jonathan Small: It’d be the, like the hotel inspector. Do you have the hotel inspector in? Australia. Oh, probably. So they’re basically there on undercover guests. Yeah. Yeah. Who, who are just going to assess an establishment? In the same way like the the, when the Michelin Star person coming, they don’t say they’re the michel star, do they?
They they have to work out who it is. I think they know the
Tyson E Franklin: come, I think they know the coming. They just dunno who it is.
I have seen movies when it’s
Jonathan Small: period or whatever. Yeah.
Tyson E Franklin: Okay. Jonathan, I’m gonna wrap this one up. Thank you for coming back on here.
Thank you for upsetting some of my listeners. I think I see you with
Jonathan Small: a controversial one today.
Tyson E Franklin: I know I did say a few things, but when we did that, when we did that episode a few, back when we did the book review, the Let Them Theory. And from that book, the thing I took away from that book review or book debate was if you have an opinion on somebody or you think something, just say it.
Just say how people react to that is how they’re [00:52:00] gonna react to it. Yeah. And since we did that one, I started realizing, yeah. A few times on the podcast say, I’m just saying what I think. And if people don’t like it, they don’t have to listen to the podcast. No. They don’t have to come do any of my events.
They don’t have to use me for business coaching. It’s, they can go talk to somebody else, doesn’t it? It’s all good
Jonathan Small: want, most likely they’ll just go on the keyboard, on the internet and be a keyboard warrior against you whenever, and stand up with the head above the parapet and actually voice their thoughts and their opinions.
Tyson E Franklin: That’s true. Okay, Jonathan, I look forward to talking to you again very soon, and I’ll just let people know as we’re recording this. It is Jonathan’s birthday today. So this won’t get released for another week or so. So happy birthday Jonathan. Hope you have a fantastic day today. And if everybody listening to this, you could feel free to sing Happy Birthday in the car while you’re driving.
That would be great. Jonathan will feel the vibes. So Jonathan, thanks for coming back on.
Jonathan Small: Great to be here again. Thank you, [00:53:00] Tyson.
Tyson E Franklin: Okay, bye
Jonathan Small: bye.